In “CRO Carlos Perez, Building a Sales Org from Scratch,” Carlos shares how he’s grown revenue organizations across startups and billion-dollar companies alike. From his early consulting days to CRO roles at Wowza and now Concept3D, Carlos reflects on the evolving role of the Chief Revenue Officer, aligning sales, marketing, and customer success to accelerate growth. He also discusses how sales has changed post-COVID, why trust and creativity matter more than ever, and how to build scalable sales teams from the ground up. For executives and entrepreneurs, this episode is packed with insights on driving sustainable revenue growth in today’s marketplace.
For the full interview: https://ocns.co/cro-carlos-perez-building-a-sales-org-from-scratch/
10 Min Clip Transcript
Michael Mitchel: [00:00:00] Hello, this is Michael Mitchell. I launched the podcast Exploring Talent in 2019. In 2021. I renamed it CXO Conversations. Hope you enjoy this episode and will subscribe to CXO conversations. For more great interviews, visit oc national search.com or your favorite podcast platform and subscribe. Enjoy. All right.
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I’m speaking with Carlos Perez, chief Revenue Officer for companies such as, wow, the media Systems. Asem 360 and currently semi watt. Carlos has led, uh, asset sales organizations to become full revenue producing teams with significant revenue payment. He is one of those unique executives that like to roll his sleeves on day one.
Lead by example. Carlos started his career by serving as a consultant while earning his MBA from Dartmouth. He has been in [00:02:00] sales leadership for about a dozen years, focused on revenue growth for 20 plus. He’s owned p and ls north of 400 million. Growing revenue by 50%. Worked for companies ranging from $5 million startups to a global billion dollar organization.
Today we’re gonna discuss. Building sales orgs from scratch, experiences that led him to the CRO desk and his thoughts on how sales may fundamentally change in a post COVID environment. Thanks for joining the conversation, Carlos. I’m looking forward to it. Uh, please share an interesting fact about yourself to everybody.
Carlos Perez : Awesome. Thank you Michael. Uh, thanks for having me. Uh, pleasure to be here on this gorgeous, uh, sunny day here in Colorado. Um, yeah, so a fun fact about myself. Uh, I’ve got a passion for baseball. I’ve been to every major league baseball stadium around the country. Uh, so there’s 30 I, I’ve been to a, a number of iterations of those baseball stadiums that have been to a ton of minor league parks as well as international [00:03:00] parks.
So, uh, I think I’m up to something like 57 professional baseball stadiums and it’s brought me, uh, to many of the nooks and crannies across America. Um, so that’s a fun fact.
Michael Mitchel: Which ones are your top two?
Carlos Perez : Top two. So I’m a bit of a traditionalist. Uh, I love, uh, Fenway in Boston. I, I lived 15 years in Boston and, uh, red Sox are my favorite team, so, uh, perhaps a bit biased there.
Um, and then, uh, uh, Chicago, uh, Wrigley Stadium. Uh, just absolute gorgeous stadium and probably the best, uh, game day experience that you can get, um, at any baseball stadium across the country.
Michael Mitchel: I saw the, I saw the Rockies play at Wrigley on my birthday a couple years ago. So that’s kind of cool,
Carlos Perez : a fantastic way to spend a birthday for sure.
At least in my book.
Michael Mitchel: You know, I think my biggest takeaway from, ’cause I’ve been the Fenway as well, because I, I, you got me, you inspired me. I’m actually doing the same thing and I’m way behind you obviously, but, um. It seemed like just me. Or when you look, when you been to Fenway and, [00:04:00] and Wrigley, were people shorter back then?
Carlos Perez : Yes, absolutely. Short, shorter, and smaller. The seats are, the seats are narrower, uh, and, uh, and not, there’s not as much spacing, so shorter, thinner, uh, more, you know, more willing to, uh, to, to. Squish their body in funny ways and have less access to food and bathrooms.
Michael Mitchel: And if I’m not mistaken, um, Coors Field is the second oldest National League ballpark.
Now,
Carlos Perez : uh, I think it’s the third I wanna say, uh, ’cause I, I know Wrigley and Dodger Stadium are older, but I, I, I wanna say it’s the third oldest National League park. Uh, if.
Michael Mitchel: It’s surprisingly up there on the list.
Carlos Perez : Yeah. It’s one of the factoids. If you ever do a, a tour at Coors Field, which I highly recommend to everybody, you know, a kind of behind the scenes tour, um, they’ll throw that question out and I, I’m pretty sure it’s the third oldest.
Michael Mitchel: It’s held up well, and we could actually spend the whole podcast talking about baseball. So, we’ll, we’ll stop. Yeah, [00:05:00] don’t get started. Don’t get me started on the, on the DH in the National League. That’s just a crime against humanity. But, um, let’s, uh, get started. So please, uh, tell us a little bit about, uh, and I hope I pronounce it correctly.
Simul.
Carlos Perez : Yeah. Simulant is a, a SaaS, uh, service solution. Um, and it’s, it’s really all about supporting reductions in greenhouse gas emissions and selling, uh, uh, supporting software and tool sets. To infrastructure, um, either owners, facilitators or service providers. So we specifically are, are selling predominantly to, uh, utility integrators that are implementing plans, uh, to reduce energy use.
And their focus is typically on commercial buildings, right? So. Commercial and industrial buildings use a lot of, uh, a lot of energy and there’s a lot of opportunity to reduce that energy through retrofits. Um, so it could be, you know, anything from lighting to windows to, uh, [00:06:00] new generators, et cetera. Um, so, uh, simul Watt is all about facilitating that.
Uh, and, and reducing GHG improving energy performance. Um, so reducing, uh, energy spend cost and in increasing the value of, of real estate through that process.
Michael Mitchel: Gotcha. Okay. And then for those who are listening, but they’re not on the CRO path career path, what do you feel that they can take away from this conversation?
If they’re in a different track altogether.
Carlos Perez : Yeah. I mean, we’re gonna talk a lot about, um, revenue growth and, and driving growth. And so I think a, a commonality across any, uh, leadership role I, and, and really almost any and every career track is, is how can companies grow revenue? And, uh, that’s what the, the, the CRO and Chief Revenue Officer role is all about and where I’ve focused my career.
But it’s a shared, uh, mantra. It’s a shared mo, it’s a shared passion across, um, [00:07:00] across leadership teams, whether you’re C-E-O-A-C-F-O-A, uh, you know, a chief, uh, commercial or customer officer or a product officer. Um, you’re always trying to, to figure out the sauce, the secret sauce of, you know, how do we grow this company now we grow this company faster.
So I think there’ll be plenty of takeaways and tidbits, uh, for listeners thinking about revenue growth.
Michael Mitchel: What, what initially drew you, um, into sales?
Carlos Perez : Yeah. And it, it, it all started with this passion for, uh, revenue growth. Um, so going back out of, uh, business school, my career started in management consulting.
So it’s, uh, not a, not an atypical, um, career path or starting point at business school. And, um, not to date myself too much, but it was the kind of the internet boom. And it, and, you know, I, I was engaged in a nu. Consulting, uh, relationships where we are helping companies think about growth, but in new models and innovative models.
Um, in, in [00:08:00] my, uh, five or so years that I spent management consulting, um, I was always, uh, advising and thinking about new ways to grow. Um, from there I moved into, uh, moved, moved out to Colorado and into a, a company and a, a, a career track within an organization, specifically level three communications that has since become CenturyLink and now I think Lumen.
Um. But, uh, the, the, the common thread through that was, was revenue growth. And as I, uh, got closer to execution and operations, I, I recognized the importance and criticality of sales. And so really my, my drive to, uh, to, to execute, uh, my drive to accelerate revenue growth. Drew me straight line into sales.
Um, because you have to get close to the customer. Uh, you have to get close to the marketplace. Um, you have to get feedback from the [00:09:00] marketplace. And so it just, it just was a natural progression for me from, um, you know, from a consulting environment to, uh, a p and l leadership role into, uh, more revenue and sales oriented roles.
Michael Mitchel: Was becoming A-C-A-A-C-R-O or even for that matter, A-C-S-O-A, a long-term professional goal for you? Or did it just organically happen?
Carlos Perez : Um, it really organically happened, so I would say, you know, I always had the desire to be a, a business leader. Um, I, uh, my focus has always been around revenue growth. I think that there, um, you know, there probably are, are different titles that.
Um, that could fit right, you know, uh, uh, COO, uh, C, perhaps CEO. Um, um, um, chief Sales Officer, um, chief Revenue Officer Chief, uh, sometimes CMOs own. On the sales group as well, and or at least in, in the old days or previous days. [00:10:00] Um, and so I, I don’t know that I explicitly said, oh, that’s exactly what I, I, uh, need to have.
I think it was a bit more organic from a title perspective. Um, but I was always looking to, uh, to, uh, toward senior leadership roles with a revenue orientation. And so I think that the evolution. CRO title wasn’t around when my career started. Uh,
Michael Mitchel: yeah. Yeah, I’m gonna jump in ’cause I was gonna ask you, when do you feel that it did start, that the term CRO start to pop up?
Because I mean, I don’t think it was even, I don’t think it was around 10 years ago, was it?
Carlos Perez : It was probably around 10 years ago. And it, and it seems, um, and maybe this is my perception, um, but it, it seems to, uh, uh, be, have been led in, in the technology space where there, uh, became a really keen. Um, need and, and observation of the criticality importance that, um, sales, marketing and biz dev and then in some [00:11:00] organizations client success were all aligned, right?
And so, you know, I think, uh, in the early parts of my career, you know, traditionally, uh, product and marketing went together, or sales was, you know, effectively by itself and maybe with biz dev. Um. But, uh, you know, through, from a a, a SaaS and software and technology, uh, maturation industry maturation, it, it, it feels like there was an acknowledgement of the criticality to align, you know, sales and marketing and in particular to drive and accelerate revenue growth and kind of growth stage companies.
Michael Mitchel: So, you know, you mentioned that at one point sales had reported to marketing, but now with, especially when you talk about CRO, it seems like marketing’s now. Up in the sales. Um, and also when you talk about demand generation lead, gen B-D-R-S-D-R, sometimes those are, you know, I think may, I’m, this is an assumption.
SDR could be more on the sales side. BDR is may oftentimes more part of the [00:12:00] marketing department. I mean, they’re starting to blur the line quite a bit.
Carlos Perez : Absolutely. And that’s why I think it’s healthy to think about it as, you know, revenue growth and thinking, thinking about it, uh, thinking about the, the, the, the larger funnel, um, and understanding, you know, what are your con uh, conversations that you’re having in the marketplace with prospects, um, and with existing customers, uh, from a company level.
Um, how are you, uh. Connecting those dots and having multiple touch points with the right people over time, how are you eventually translating those and engaging in, in, in sales conversations and representing yourself as a trusted advisor? Um, as a subject matter expert? And I think it’s appropriate that it blurs the lines ’cause I think.
Hard lines, uh, lead to misalignment, lead to, you know, disconnect and, and, um, inconsistency of conversation. And when there’s more fluidity and consistency and alignment, the better you’re [00:13:00] going to, uh, present yourself to customers and to prospects. And so the better chance you’ve got in, you know, in this marketplace to make a difference, right?
Your goal is to, you know, engage, add value to. To, to partner and, and advise, uh, prospects and customers. And you wanna be coordinated when you do that, right? Um, and so that’s why I think there’s, you know, just this tremendous value to, or, or at least good value and rationale to, uh, to organizing, um, in, in a manner that that’s, uh, includes the full revenue scope.
Michael Mitchel: Do, do you see the trends moving to more towards C-O-C-R-O roles versus CSO roles?
Carlos Perez : Um, you know, it, I, I wanna say it might somewhat depend on industry. It might, and it might be somewhat fluid over time. Um, I, I guess I can say that, um, you know, it’s, it’s increasingly important to be, [00:14:00] um, consistent, coordinated and aligned in the marketplace.
And, um, you know, you can get there, um, with. Different models, but I think that it facilitates things when you’re all on the same team. Um, you know, I I think there’s, uh, the, a reality of, of, uh, of size. Like when you get to, you know, uh, billion dollar companies often oftentimes you just, you just have this scale challenge of, of people in teams that you break things up perhaps more.
Um, but. Uh, I think there’s good merit to, to chief Revenue Officer, uh, roles and, um, but you know, again, it’s, it’s all about the tenets of what you’re accomplishing, not necessarily the titles.
Michael Mitchel: Uh, do you feel that the, the title and the role is best suited for a specific size company? Or is it something that scales or is that just [00:15:00] an irrelevant question?
Carlos Perez : Um, I don’t know that it’s irrelevant. Um, you know, I think the, uh, in, in my mind, um, you know, the, the more competitive, the more fluid, the more, um, uh, dynamic the space, um, the higher the bar for. Um, for, for being coordinated, for, for being consistent. For being aligned. Um, because missteps can, you know, as a company can cause you to, to, to dramatically miss things, uh, in, in, in the space.
And so that’s, you know, I’ve, I’ve spent my. Career in, in the tech space, the majority of it in SaaS and software. And, and so, um, you know, that’s where I see it most. And I, and I think that, you know, there, there’s, uh, a strong rationale for a, a Chief revenue officer, um, you know, and. And, you know, I think those, those conditions likely hold in other segments.
I’m [00:16:00] not trying to say this is only a tech thing, but, uh, you know, the, the flip side is in a, in a very mature, stable, um, you know, uh, predict more predictable kind of pattern. You know, you probably can more easily break out functionally, uh, without as much issue or implication.
Michael Mitchel: You know, when you look at the, at your first C-R-O-C-R-O role, when you look back at your career, do you wish that, you know.
Like there was some experience you’d had prior that you’d. Come back to you, wish you had gained?
Carlos Perez : Um, no. I mean, uh, you always wanna have more experience, so I’m, I’m not trying to suggest that I had all the experience I needed. Um, I mean, you, you, what you want is to learn the lessons of being a CRO, but you can’t do that until you’re one.
Right. I, I do think it, you know, if you’re going to, um, have a scope that includes. Marketing and sales and business development and, and customer success. It’s, [00:17:00] it’s really important to have, uh, experience across those areas. Um, and then depending on the company and the role, you know, there may be a higher bar or higher need in a particular one of those.
Right. Um, and so, you know, for example, in, um, at, at Wowza where I had my, my first CRO role. There was, um, you know, a, a strong criticality to, um, to marketing, sales and business development. Um, we were, we were more of a, uh, initially a mid-market, um, solution and, and, and so it was a little less of a client success expand when I joined.
Over time, that changed, we actually moved, um, up. Up the, the, um, so the, the ladder, so to speak, in terms of size of customer and in terms of depth [00:18:00] of solution. And so, um, uh, uh, uh, you know, selling into a customer and expanding became more important over my tenure. Um, but initially it, it wasn’t. And so, you know, from my experience that, you know, I felt like I was, I was pretty well equipped, um, to handle.
What, what I came into, although, you know, I certainly, uh, would’ve benefited from, from time and tenure in the role, uh, because there’s nothing like experience. Right.
Michael Mitchel: Did you come in though to Wowza as the CRO or did you come in as a, as a lower level and move up?
Carlos Perez : Um, I came in as, as a SVP of, um, business development and very shortly thereafter was elevated to, uh, the CRO.
Michael Mitchel: How’d that happen? Was that just, like, did they come to you or did you raise your hand and say, if that role ever comes available? I’m, I’m in.
Carlos Perez : No, I, I mean, it was a, a fairly small and growing organization and I think it just happened organically that it was evident, you know, I was, [00:19:00] um, participating and, and.
Eager to, to, um, to drive, um, revenue growth overall. Um, and it, and it made sense to include, um, marketing, um, and expand the role, um, just based on where we were going and what we were doing. And so, you know, I was, um, given a, a broader scope and, um, and, and, and, you know, the title CRO af, uh, after a short period of time.
Michael Mitchel: So that’s what changed from the SVP role when you became the, the, the CRO, you now inherited marketing. Correct. Is that one of the biggest Yeah. Was that the biggest change or was there other Yeah,
Carlos Perez : no, that was the biggest change. Uh, as well as just the responsibility change. You know, it’s just, uh, you know, it, it went from, you know, defining, uh, subset of things to, you’re in charge of, of growing revenue for the company.
And, you know, here’s, here’s where the revenue needs to be at the end of this year and think about. The go-to [00:20:00] market mix and, you know, the strategic levers and the, the planning, the, the resource allocation and the resource need. Um, and in terms of how we get there, right? And so the, the scope of the question became broader and the, and the responsibility became broader where it wasn’t like, okay, well how do you optimize?
The sales and business development thing to, okay, no, take the, take those blinders off. You know, you need to maximize and optimize revenue growth. Here’s our targets. You know, think through, um, the full go to market mix. Think, think through the full set of scope of resources, um, and initiatives, and go execute that.
Michael Mitchel: Mm-hmm. So, um, what was it, what was that transition like for marketing? I mean, when they, when they, one day they, they finally report to somebody else. Now. I,
Carlos Perez : I think, you know, in my experience, um, marketing, um, uh, marketers, um, and having been one [00:21:00] really appreciate when you’re aligned with sales and, um, and so there can be misalignment, there can be, you know, finger pointing across the way.
And so I think that, um, uh. Alignment, meaning shooting for the same goals and, and, and being, uh, singing from the, the same kind of hymnal and having the same nomenclature is all super beneficial. I think, you know, the, the, the part that that. Maybe you’re getting to, um, that CROs or, or someone with more of a sales orientation needs to be aware of is that, you know, marketing needs to be strategic, right?
There needs to be, um, key initiatives and pillars that they’re going after. They can’t be just sales enablement, you know, that’s a, a, a piece of what marketing does. Um, but they need to be thinking about how they engage with prospects, how they [00:22:00] position, um. Uh, subject matter expertise and, and strong content and, and get to the right set of touches, um, with the right decision makers and influencers in the marketplace.
So you have to allow them the space, um, and the, the, the, the capacity to focus on that. And so for me, bringing marketing and sales together doesn’t mean that, you know, um, that marketing is the. The, the tail that the, that is wagged by the dog, right? It means that they’re equal partners in engaging, uh, prospects and customers, uh, to move and progress the funnel.
Um, because they’re, you know, EE equally important in my book, right? In terms of engaging and driving top of funnel, and then converting and, and upselling over time. Customers, I mean, it’s gotta be a, a partnership. And so, you know, there’s [00:23:00] some, some caveats I made through there in terms of, you know, if those things are true.
I think marketing is super excited because now they’ve got somebody that needs to rationalize those two things. Right? Um, it can’t be the case that, you know, sales is, is banging the table and marketing is, is frustrated because they have to do this. ’cause sales asks. It’s now the case that they’re reporting up to the same person that needs to rationalize, like how do you get strategic things done in marketing?
While still, uh, meeting the day-to-day needs, the tactical needs that are often kind of loud and squeaky, that can come from a sales team. Right.
Michael Mitchel: Oh, interesting. Okay. How do you, how do you see sales changing in a post COVID world?
Carlos Perez : Uh, well, I mean, I, um, tactically, um, maybe is the biggest, uh, thing, right? And so I think there was already a fair shift toward, [00:24:00] um, you know, value add, being a trusted advisor, um, providing.
A new perspective and engaging people in that conversation. Um, but perhaps there still was some dependency in, in, you know, this is just speaking broadly and generically on just, you know, butts and seats and, and getting in front of people. And, and that’s not to say there isn’t value in terms of getting in front of people, but.
But the key is, what are you gonna say and how are you going to add value when you’re in front of somebody? Right. And I, and I think that the, um, going virtual and, you know, uh, limiting access, uh, you know, in person, whether that’s a meeting or limiting access and in, in terms of, um. You know, lunches or dinners or, or shoulder time that you typically try to take advantage of or at trade shows, um, you know, he increases the burden and increases the, the [00:25:00] need to have, you know, a difference making point of view to, to being a trusted advisor.
And so I, yeah, so I think that that’s a change. And then the, the flip side is, you know, it, it, it’s, it’s hard to, it’s hard to break in, right? I mean, it’s even harder when you can’t see somebody or run into somebody at a show or strike up a casual conversation and have it kind of more. Organically, um, evolve, like that path is certainly constrained.
And so I think salespeople need to be increasingly creative, right? So video, um, you know, people are doing, you know, little video vignettes, um, and video engagements. Um, you know, they’re thinking, you know, creatively to engage people and they probably have for a while in social, uh, networks. Um, you know, again.
Uh, critical is really understanding your customer, understanding your prospect, understanding the pain, [00:26:00] and developing a point of view in terms of how you can make their life easier. Um, you know, it’s, it’s incredibly important to get, uh, to influence, right, uh, peer recommendations and, uh, you. Uh, trusted influencers in the marketplace.
Um, so those things, you know, just become more and more important. Um, and I think that’s probably a continuation of, of, of something that was already happening and, and maybe accelerated it. But it, it does make it tough ’cause that, you know, uh, some of the opportunities just to open the door and, and to strike up a conversation in person at a show or, or, you know, are, are constrained.
Michael Mitchel: I agree. I think after nine 11, the work from home increased dramatically. Um, and I mean, people still traveled and I think if anything, maybe business travel might have picked up a bit more. Um, but it’s, you know, the, the advantage and I think that the travel [00:27:00] will never go back completely to where it was before.
I mean, once you take out that, once that company gets used to eliminating that travel budget. It’s gonna be hard to give up that savings that might work for transactional type sales, but like you’re saying, but for more consultative, trusted advisor, more relationship, you do business with people you like and you have something in common with, and the big way that you, that happens is just organically talking.
Get annoy each other When you break bread or you’re at a trade show and you’re in person. I had a, I had a, uh, a BD call with a potential, uh, client, just y uh, yesterday. It was via Zoom and he went straight. I mean, there was no chitchat, no getting to know each other. He went straight into it and I hung up a call and I just didn’t have a vibe of, I didn’t understand who he was as the CEO and what his kind of his, how his management style or his personality style or his ethics.
I didn’t get a sense of any of that. And so I kind of walked away saying, I don’t think that’s a search I wanna take on. [00:28:00] ’cause we, I didn’t have that positive interpersonal experience. Does that make sense? Sure. So, yeah.
Carlos Perez : Well, I mean, uh, I, I think that, um, in my, in, in my book, it, it’s, it’s, the, the first criteria is, um.
Adding value. Right? And, and so you, you’ve gotta add, add value. That said, you need to, to be trusted and you need to have the ability to, to build a rapport. And, you know, that can, can differ based on who you’re talking to. You know, I, I’ve, I’ve sold to lots of different, uh. Um, types of prospects and li and ideal customer profiles, right?
Um, and selling to, you know, a developer or a CTO is, you know, a different kind of rapport that they’re looking for versus, uh, A CMO. And, and, and you know, you can, there [00:29:00] are, there are some things that are perhaps generalizable or stereotypes, but also there’s, there’s just an individual aspect. Um, you know, you can’t, um, you can’t remove the fact that we’re human, which is a bit of, a bit of what you’re saying, and, and, but you know, there’s still paths to getting to that.
Right. You know, and, and video is a path and. You know, demonstrating creativity is a path and building rapport and understanding of, you know, you Michael might like to, to have some chitchat and, you know, you, you’re gonna wanna, you know, uh, understand a little bit about, uh, somebody and whether or not they’re, they like to ride bikes or if they’ve got a, you know, if they’re a dog person or are like baseball, um, other folks you know, that maybe they’re interested in, um.
Technology innovation topics or, you know, there’s different things that, uh, that, that float different people’s boats. Um, so, you know, I, I think we can’t lose sight of there, there’s a [00:30:00] human element and so you need to trust and have a rapport. But you know, it, it’s still, I, I think the bar has never been higher in terms of adding value and being able to, um, you know, engage folks with difference making content and, you know, solutions that move the needle and address pain.
You know, it’s, it’s like you gotta understand your prospect better now than ever before, and, and then that’s what, you know, when you take that to a few levels of the tail. It’s not only about their business, it’s about. Their objectives and what are they trying to accomplish? And then it’s also maybe some about, you know, what, what is their, their, their personal mix, right?
Yeah. And, um, you know, the more balanced they are, the, the more personal mix they might have.
Michael Mitchel: I had a, I had a client, one, a, a sales leader mention, and we’re having a conversation. He’s like, I think I’m looking for, for, I’m gonna hire some junior salespeople because I want junior salespeople who are used to selling this COVID environment.
’cause they’ve already been social media savvy to begin with. So his, so his thinking was [00:31:00] they’re gonna be much more comfortable selling via Zoom than say a senior client executive profile. I thought it was kind of an interesting look at take on things.
Carlos Perez : Yeah. I mean, um, uh, you know, from, from, from my lens that, you know, maybe that’s a, a consideration, but, you know, I would try to think about like, who’s the buyer?
What type of solution is it? What type of sale is it? Right? And, and that mm-hmm. That those things might, might drive for me. The type of account executive or salesperson that I’m looking for, um, versus just proclivity to tools. I, there, I mean there, there, there’s probably some, um, you know, uh, uh, minimum barriers to entry that you might have and, uh, and, and comfort level.
But, you know, you try to understand is this a, is this a, a, a. A technical sale. Is this a consultative sale? Is this more of a transactional [00:32:00] sale? Like those sorts of things probably for me are, are bigger drivers of the, the senior junior season, not kind of discussion. Um. But, but yeah, I mean it’s, it’s something to think about for sure.
Um, and, you know, and, and then you might think about just creativity. You might think about, you know, willingness to change. Um, and, you know, is someone trying to implement a just their, their traditional playbook or are they always just trying to figure out like, what’s the best thing to sell to, to the type of buyer that I’ve got now and now?
Exactly. Yeah. Right. And, and you know. Uh, given the pace of change, it’s probably, you know, the, the latter is important, whether it’s a senior person or junior person.
Michael Mitchel: But, but I also see the deal sizes. This is a little bit of a sidebar from the, the big picture conversation, but I’m seeing deals sizes are smaller, now gone.
No longer are you gonna see the deal, the days of the billion dollar, uh, Proctor and Gamble deal. HP did, which by the [00:33:00] way. I talked to, I talked to no less than four salespeople who all claim they sold that deal. I mean, I, you know, I think you’re gonna see, I think SaaS has fundamentally changed the, the, the deal sizes as well.
Just the sales model. And
Carlos Perez : so a, a great one-liner for, uh, for four people claiming. Um, one, one of my mentors in my career at Glen Russo, a great business person, uh, he, he told me, um, success has many fathers, but failure as an orphan. Oh, I’m totally gonna take that. So, uh, so yeah, when good things happen, a lot of people claim victory when, when bad thing happen, uh, everyone, uh, floats, uh, or, you know, uh, runs for the hills.
Michael Mitchel: Uh, well that was also kinda like, was it Nixon when his reelection was like, like this huge popular vote landslide, but. Fast forward, you couldn’t find anybody who’ve actually voted for ’em. Right, right, [00:34:00] right, right. Same thing. Very interesting. So you’ve worked for startups with basically no sales folks at all.
How do you start to build out a team? How do you start from scratch?
Carlos Perez : Sure. Um, yeah, I mean, uh, I, I think it’s important. Um, sounds
Michael Mitchel: kind of fun.
Carlos Perez : So that’s why I had to ask that question. Yeah. I mean, it, it’s important to, to sell on your own right? And, and be, um, become fluent and understand, um, the market.
Understand the I ideal customer profile. Understand, um, um, you know, what you think. Good looks like, um, so that you have a model. Um, there may be one or two salespeople there that you can try to orient from. Right. Um, but you know, going back to some of the characteristics that that. You were talking about earlier.
You know, I, I try to understand, okay, what type of sale is this, right? Is it, uh, is it consultative sale? Is it a technical sale? Um, you know, who, who’s the [00:35:00] buyer? Who are you selling to? Um, are, is it gonna be kind of more of a, a one person that can drive the sale from beginning to close, or are they very much engaging with, you know, solution engineers or, um, uh, internal operations or.
Client success handoffs. And so, you know, there’s, there’s a bunch of factors that go in and then, you know, then, and typically you start to think about, okay, well is this, uh, you know, an an an enterprise outbound salesperson? Is this, uh, an inside mid-market salesperson? Is this a high volume transaction sales person, you know, level of tech?
The competence and complexity, um, level of seasoning that you want. And, and so those are some of the factors that, that go in. And, and then, you know, in my, in my book, you’re, you’re always, um, figuring out what the right trial is. Right? Okay, let’s, let’s [00:36:00] hire, you know, two to three salespeople. And, and, and get after it.
And, and, and, you know, give them the, the playbook and the mo that we think are the ingredients for success, the operating and comp model that we think makes sense. And, and then let’s adjust. Right. You know, let’s, let’s get data and understand how we’re performing and adjust that model as it goes. And of course, you know, you, you, we’ve got the benefit.
Of our own. And then, you know, lots of other people’s experience, right? Like always try to take advantage of board members of, you know, other senior executives of your peers and, and your, you know, trusted advisors and, you know, podcasts and great articles, um, that, that help you laser in, you know, what good looks like, right?
Don’t start. Blank per se. Um, you know, start with, you know, best practices and, and good [00:37:00] examples of, you know, what are the, the value systems and the experiences and the competencies that make for good salespeople at these types of companies.
Michael Mitchel: That’s really interesting. Do, do you feel that, do, do you feel there’s an advantage of starting a clean slate or would you, or with the pros and cons of a small team already there, or starting from scratch?
Carlos Perez : Um, well, in the ideal world, uh, there’s something that’s working or, and data that you can use to assess where to go from here, right? Mm-hmm. Um, you know, I, I just think that there’s, there’s so much value in. In, in data results and, and experience. Um, and not experience just for the sake of, but experience, like in terms of how it translates, like, okay, um, you know, this is this type of salesperson that was hired from, you know, this type of company.
Um, and you know, here, here’s. What their, [00:38:00] uh, their mo their CV and, you know, their experience sets look like. Um, it’s, it’s always beneficial to be able to say, you know, something’s working and I wanna be able to do more of it. Because the, you know, the other alternative, like I said, is you start with what you think works and then you adjust from there.
Mm-hmm. So, um, you know, I think it’s always, it’s, it’s. You know, uh, it’s nice if you’ve got some, some sales success and perhaps they don’t have the scalable, repeatable model, right? Meaning they don’t have the, the operating structure, the systems, um, you know, you don’t have a, you. Uh, a strong recruiting engine yet, uh, but you, you know, you’ve got a couple strong salespeople and you can dig into, okay, well, what’s really working?
Um, what are your roadblocks? What would make, you know, what would make more sales happen? How would we replicate this? Is it just a matter of getting more people like you, or what else about the model needs to be adjusted? [00:39:00] Um, so, you know, I’ll, I’ll, I’ll always say a strong core is great. Um, you know, it’s, it’s.
In my experience or the types of roles I’m typically, um, joining companies in, uh, they’re looking to, uh, step on the gas is the way I say it, right? Meaning they, they’ve got product market success. Um, they’re, they’re adding value in the marketplace. They’ve got a solution that works. Um, and now what they’re looking to do is really accelerate their revenue growth.
They’re really looking to, to scale it in a way, um, that is, you know. Orders of magnitude, uh, uh, more significant where were, where they were. And so most typically that means there’s, there’s, you know, at least some successful salespeople or models that you can work from. But that, that there’s a question or concern in terms of how you make that repeatable.
Um. Mm-hmm. You know? Uh, you know, I would come in and diagnose and understand, alright, well, [00:40:00] um, you know, what is, what, what’s, what’s working, what’s not, what’s repeatable, what’s not? You know, here’s this, here’s the system that we can drop that into. And mechanisms to provide, you know, accountability and transparency and systems, um, across a broader team, you know, clear rules of engagement, you know, clear black and white.
What everyone owns, doesn’t own, um, across a broader team and get away from kind of that squishiness that often that might occur in a, a smaller organization. Uh, did that, did that answer your
Michael Mitchel: question? Yeah, no, no. That’s great. So now fast forward, you’re at the, it’s a bigger company established right now you’re hiring managers, you’re hiring VPs.
What, what do you look for in successful leadership hires?
Carlos Perez : Yeah, great question. Um. So, I mean, I think first and foremost, uh, the core at, at a leadership level, you know, you’re starting with culture, values, ability to build and grow teams. Um, you know, in, in the technology companies that I’ve been in and, and it [00:41:00] probably goes across all segments and industries, but, you know, I, I think, uh.
People is always the differentiator, right? And so, uh, the, the ability to, to hire, retain, grow, develop great people, be part of and consistent with, you know, what hopefully is already an awesome culture. Um, so I think that’s one thing. Um, certainly an ability to, to drive results, right? So you’re looking at an experienced profile of, alright, what, um.
What have they done historically? Um, you know, how have they delivered previously? Um, you’re looking at, uh, synergy and chemistry, uh, between yourself and this person. You know, how can you develop a, a, a good symbiotic relationship? Um, um, uh, the type of, of manager and leader. That’s, that’s very transparent, and it’s looking to establish accountability with my team and have them [00:42:00] own and, and deliver, you know, I’m, I’m all about hiring, uh, smart people and, and you know, having them, you know, tell me what to do and, and deliver.
Right? And I’m, I’m, I’m looking to enable and, and get out of the way for the most part. I can hop in where needed. Um, but that sort of autonomy is typically what I’m looking for in a leader. And then obviously, depending on the. Functional area that I’m hiring in, um, I’m understanding their, their experience sets and their competencies, you know, relative to, um, sales or marketing or business development or, uh, client or customer success.
Um, you know, I would be digging into the, the experience and competencies that they’ve got in those respective areas. So, you know, that’s, that’s sort, sort of, um, uh, reasonable altitude. And, you know, depending on the role, obviously I’m, I’m digging in further. Um, but you know, it all starts with, with, with people [00:43:00] and, and chemistry.
It all starts with, uh, you know, results and accountability and communication. Um, I, you know, those are all. Great ingredients, um, customer orientation, willingness to make an impact, um, you know, interest in driving results and, and, um, you know, improving lives of, of our customers and prospects. Right.
Michael Mitchel: So going back to Glen Russo’s, uh, pearls of Wisdom, has there ever great, um, has there ever been advice that someone’s given you that you still use today?
Carlos Perez : Oh, sure. Um. I mean, uh, you know, Glenn had a, a, a ton of advice for me at, uh, at, uh, level three. Um, he’s still a great mentor today. Um, Tom Gibs and, and, uh, the Stein’s, uh, at, in my strategy roles at, at level three, um, provided. Great strategic direction and, and strategic insights. [00:44:00] Um, uh, you know, from a, from a consulting capacity, um, earlier in my career, um, uh, Russell Bracket and, uh, John Rich were two partners that, um, that, uh, I got a lot of sage advice from.
So, you know for sure, I’m, I’m, I’m constantly looking to learn and sharpen the saw. Um, I’m all ears from a, a mentorship perspective. Um, you know, uh, more recently at, at Wowza, uh, Greg Goldfarb from, uh, summit Capital is an incredible, uh, board member and Advi business advisor, uh, was just a off the chain smart guy.
Um. Uh, Charlie Good is a, a creative, uh, genius in terms of, uh, his ability to, uh, think about both business and technology together. So, yeah, I mean, I’ve had, I’ve been very fortunate to have great mentors and managers and, and partner business [00:45:00] partners, uh, through my career.
Michael Mitchel: So, you know, it’s interesting ’cause you talk about, as you’re coming up, but you still have mentors today, the, the mentorship.
Need and relationship, it doesn’t end.
Carlos Perez : Correct. Yeah. I mean, uh, definitely continue to, uh, you know, I, I have conversations, uh, you mentioned Glen, uh, with, with him periodically and, and pick his brain. Uh, just recently talked to, to Charlie Goode, um, and Scott Ecker, who are two, uh, leaders, uh, and collaborators with me at, at Wowza.
Um, and so a absolutely um, um, uh, Gordon boy, uh, who’s a, a local CEO, um, uh, and for concept 3D and, and was a, uh, a business partner or, you know, I, I. I did internal consulting for his business unit when we were at level three. Um, yeah, absolutely. Uh, I look to constantly collaborate and pick the brain of, of folks, um, ’cause you know, it’s, [00:46:00] you want the collective experience.
You don’t wanna be limited to your own.
Michael Mitchel: Right. Okay. So, you know, thinking throughout your entire career, and this is, could be pre-college, high school, whatever, what was the best, worst job you’ve ever had? And how’s it impacted your, your career today? I mean, it’s just like, it’s a job that you’re like, this thing just sucks, but you learn something out of it.
Carlos Perez : Uh, well, um, I mean, I think, uh. I think it’s important to engage with people. So like I, I did, um, uh, you know, I, I was a, a busboy. I was in, uh, catering services in, in college and, uh, and that had me just engaging with tons of people. And I, I think that, uh, personal experience, um, and appreciation for, um. Every role, uh, comes from, you know, working.[00:47:00]
Uh, you know, and getting your hands really dirty, literally. Uh, so, you know, I, I, I think that there’s just a lot of benefit to, uh, uh, you know, uh, that kind of, uh, experience. And then in college, um, I, I had a, you know, a sales job that was, or well. I guess it, it was a cor uh, uh, corporate development, uh, or, or educational development.
I was asking for donations and it, you know, effectively I was, I was calling people on the phone looking to build a rapport and then asked them for a bunch of money. Um, so I think both of those, you know, uh, one was just giving an, uh, an appreciation for all roles. And the second was, you know, just understanding, um.
Sales and, and engaging early on are, you know, kind of two, uh, tougher jobs. Um, but, you know, good experiences [00:48:00] and, you know, contribute to, you know, who I am today. And, and I, and I think it would benefit every, anybody or everybody.
Michael Mitchel: Interesting. Yeah. All right, cool. So any books to recommend? You know, I there and there’s a lot of sales books out there and I think this, I tend to say this question of late more for folks in the sales development area.
Carlos Perez : Yeah. I mean, I, I like the, um. The challenger sale books. Um, I think that from a sales approach, um, you know, that that is a bit more consistent with an innovative solution. Um, but, but certainly, you know, from a, a tech and, and, uh, software, SaaS solution type. Mo, right. Um, educating, advising, you’re a trusted advisor, but you’re also looking, um, to teach, you’re, you’re looking to guide, you’re looking to, um, to challenge a bit of, uh, [00:49:00] today’s convention.
So I like that. Um, and then just from a business growth perspective, I think you can’t go wrong with, uh, Clayton Christensen and Innovators Dilemma, right? Hmm. Um. I mean, just thinking about, um, growth stage companies, thinking about, you know, uh, moving to next segments, understanding early adopters, uh, understanding, you know, how you get to the, you know, the mass and, and mass adoption.
Um. You know, I love Innovator’s Dilemma, and, and, uh, and the, the, just more broadly, I guess the Clayton Christensen, um, uh, business strategy and, and revenue growth, uh, set of, of books and. And, um, and, and articles usually, usually you can boil it down. They have like the 10 page version, which is just uhhuh, you know, all you need.
Um, and so I always recommend that like it’s the Harvard, Harvard Business Review article [00:50:00] versus the book that is based on the Harvard Business Review article.
Michael Mitchel: Uh, I had an old like, I dunno what publishing data was, but Dell Carnegie’s, how to Win Friends Influence People Book. Yeah. But at the end of each chapter, it had a page with just all the bullets.
I’m like, well, I’m just gonna read the page. Those pages written the whole book. Exactly. Maybe I shouldn’t have made that out loud.
Carlos Perez : Yeah, I know. I mean, uh, you want, uh, I mean, it’s certainly beneficial to understand the anecdotes, right? And so typically what they’re doing is taking the punchline and expanding it to, um.
Real world examples, real world anecdotes that get into depth of coloring in how, what it means. But at the end of the day, you wanna know like what it means. Um, and so boiling it down I think is, is, uh, there you go.
Michael Mitchel: Oh yeah. In that case, yeah. In that case, if you’re talking about that, my, uh, the fun book to read is Chris Voss Never Split the Difference.
Yeah. Former head, FBI Ne Hostage Negotiator I love, he’s like, you never negotiate [00:51:00] half the hostage. I’m like, how do you argue with that? Yeah,
Carlos Perez : yeah, yeah. You, you, you anchor and, and you, you stick. Yeah. I like that. I like that. Uh,
Michael Mitchel: yeah. So it, it’s, it’s, well, well, uh, well thumbed through, so, well, great. Well, look, um, I, any, any last minute emerging thoughts?
No, it’s a
Carlos Perez : blast. Uh, you know, I, I, uh, welcome. Um. Thoughts, questions, follow ons and, and engaging folks, uh, in revenue growth dialogue. Um, you know, look forward to running into folks, uh, whether it’s, I know, uh, Denver Startup Week, uh, that you often do things at or, um, you know, in any of the, the communities that are here in the Denver Boulder area.
Uh, but, uh, you know, I’m always eager to learn and always eager to engage.
Michael Mitchel: Great. Well, um, Carlos, I really appreciate your time and, and thanks for being on. Yeah, thanks Michael.
Carlos Perez : Appreciate it. It’s been a blast.
Michael Mitchel: It really has been. It’s been a blast. Thanks for joining. [00:52:00] Cheers. Take care. Bye. I hope you enjoyed the conversation and took away something that you can apply to your career.
Please leave us five stars and a review on iTunes, so that’s the only way we can improve and ask the questions that you want to hear. Also, subscribe on your favorite podcast platform. I’d like to thank Jolan Crossland and an award-winning banjo on bluegrass artists from the Bighorn Mountains in Wyoming for providing his music to exploring talent.
When I think of talent, I always think of jolan. Please visit jolan crossland.com, all us on LinkedIn under Exploring Talent. And my LinkedIn is Michael Mitchell with one L. Share our show and please drop me a note.
