In “Christine Gagnon CFO, the Importance of Being Intellectually Curious,” Christine shares how a lifelong passion for learning has shaped her global career. During recording, she was the CFO of African Asset Finance Company, she reflects on her journey through leadership roles at EY, PwC, and OneWest Bank, as well as earning multiple advanced degrees and executive certifications from Harvard, Stanford, and Washington University. Christine explains how international experiences, from Johannesburg to London, shaped her global market perspective, and why intellectual curiosity allows her to better serve CEOs, boards, and organizations with strategic insights.

For the full interview: https://ocns.co/christine-gagnon-cfo-the-importance-of-being-intellectually-curious/

10 Min Clip Transcript

Christine Gagnon: [00:00:00] I am just an intellectually curious person and whenever I go into a new situation, it may be a new company, it may be a new jurisdiction. I always think, wow, I wish I knew this, or I wish I knew this a little bit better. Alright, I’m gonna kick it.

Michael Mitchel: This is Michael Mitchell of CXO Conversations podcast, where executives share their experiences and insight on reaching the C-Suite. This week’s guest is Christine Gagnon, a global CFO, who values and never stops learning. After living in London in Manhattan, Christine Gagnon and her husband settled outside of Charlotte, North Carolina, where she joins us today.

As I’ve gotten to know Christine, I am both fascinated and envious of her ongoing education. I frankly don’t know where she finds the time. She holds three degrees from University of Connecticut, including two two masters, one of which is an MBA, [00:01:00] obtaining master’s in legal studies from the Washington University, St.

Louis School of Law, as well as executive education programs at Stanford and Harvard. And she teaches all this while advancing her career at PWC one West Bank and senior leadership at ey. Christine is currently a global CFO. Fair enough to say. I think the interview will easily start off around passion for learning how and why it impacts careers.

So, Christine, to kind of kick things off, um, share our unique life experience. 

Christine Gagnon: I think one of the most unique experiences I’ve had was to spend over a year in Johannesburg Africa when I was with ey. It was a really different experience for me. I think moving from the west coast and moving into a new country and new space and, and that’s really where, for me, the interest in Africa and the segue into A-F-C-R-M now really, really made sense.

Michael Mitchel: Okay. What, um, can you tell me a little bit, can you share a little bit what you’re doing now [00:02:00] briefly? 

Christine Gagnon: Sure. So I’m the group CFO for African Asset Finance. Yeah. We provide equipment finance across Africa. We are in Ethiopia heavily now moving into new markets, uh, Nigeria and Ghana. So very exciting times for us.

We’re quite busy. 

Michael Mitchel: How are you seeing that market develop the continent? 

Christine Gagnon: I think there’s a tremendous opportunity in Africa across the board. So quite frankly there, there’s massive opportunity. We’re looking at various verticals, so medical, um, ICT, information, communication technology. We obviously have a place in agriculture, so I would say in each market it’s, it’s unique with its own unique challenges and opportunities, but it’s definitely there.

Michael Mitchel: Do, do you ever see a, a, a point where Africa is economy and development is, I don’t know, what’s the next country? India? Um, Indonesia, Vietnam, kind of, [00:03:00] it seems like it’s been struggling for a bit. 

Christine Gagnon: It’s probably hard to say, and I definitely think each economy in Africa is. Unique. So it’s interesting for me, um, I started my work in Africa in 2016, so, you know, fast forward what we are six years later.

I’m still really getting my feet wet. Every time we go into a new market, it’s a new learning experience, and we spend anywhere from six to 18 months really focused on what is this market about? What is, what are the challenges we need to think about how will the business work? So, um, it is, it’s in my opinion, going into new market, very bespoke, I think like most businesses, but especially in Africa because each jurisdiction is so unique.

Michael Mitchel: What, um, um, two MBAs. Oh, I’m sorry. Check that. Um, two, you have two masters. Um, one’s an MBA, you got the master’s in accounting. Um, one wasn’t enough. You had to keep going. I’m sorry, I I I’m gonna be endlessly fascinated by [00:04:00] your education. This is gonna very, 

Christine Gagnon: I actually have three masters. 

Michael Mitchel: I missed one. What was the other one?

Christine Gagnon: The Master’s in Legal Studies. 

Michael Mitchel: Um, 

Christine Gagnon: oh, 

Michael Mitchel: that’s 

Christine Gagnon: right. That is the master. I 

Michael Mitchel: apologize. Yeah, so 

Christine Gagnon: that, that’s really exciting. I can’t stay away from school, you know, I. I am just an intellectually curious person and whenever I go into a new situation, it may be a new company, it may be a new jurisdiction. I always think, wow, I wish I knew this, or I wish I knew this a little bit better.

And I mean, I won’t, I won’t bore everyone to death. But when I started at P wc,

I had initially had this itch to go to law school. The law side was very interesting to me, but. I sort of weighed the cost and benefits and thought the MBA might make more sense. So I’d finished my master’s in accounting to get my license, went back to school, uh, to do my MBA, to look at international business, a little bit of finance, and scratch those itches.

Um, and ultimately [00:05:00] when I was at a FCI was doing a lot of legal work with our CEO and I. I just, again, I was like, wow, I wish I really knew more about employment law and contract law. So. I took the bull by the horns and, and I, I just completed, um, that degree as well. I think it helps me be a well-rounded person.

I think it helps me have better conversations and it’s personally enriching, uh, and enjoyable. Some people find that bizarre. Um, but it really is, it really is an avenue for me to, to relax and, uh, not a hobby, but almost in a way. 

Michael Mitchel: How, how is a master’s in legal studies different from a jd? 

Christine Gagnon: So I explain it in that we have the same classes as JD students and uh, we have the same professors.

The difference really is it’s more a la carte. So I don’t have to do the law classes that I don’t wanna do. Um, I focused heavily on business law, so I did taxation, I did, um, business [00:06:00] formation, employment law, contract law, intellectual property. Typically that would be mixed with a. A lot more, um, many more courses, um, constitutional law and things like that.

So I just essentially picked the things that I enjoyed. I did my concentration in business law. So you more or less, it’s assumed that you have a professional background that you’re going in and you’re picking and choosing the things that are relevant to your professional career. 

Michael Mitchel: So, um, how, how have you seen the application of that master’s degree?

In your, in your day job. 

Christine Gagnon: It depends how you ask. If you’re, if you’re asking me, um, I joke because we have this, this conversation sometimes with my CEO. He’s, he and I are very close and we, we talk about, um, you know, does it make sense to spend my spare time in, in certain places? And what will really, you know, bring value?

Intellectual value, monetary value, and I personally think it’s been really helpful. I don’t know if I can put, [00:07:00] you know, an ROI on it right now, but it’s helpful when you’re sitting with other CFOs or when you’re having a conversation with legal or for example, you know, I look at a lot of our non-disclosure agreements and things like that.

I just feel I’m a bit more prepared to have conversations. I understand more of the legal aspects of what I’m looking at. I don’t pretend to be an attorney because I’m not, but it’s always helpful when you can speak the language 

Michael Mitchel: if you want to. Could you take the state bar with them? 

Christine Gagnon: No. So you’d have to go back and I would have to get my jd Some of my classmates are, are going to do that.

I do not think I have the appetite. 

Michael Mitchel: So do you, so do you have to go back and do an entire JD program of three years or can you just go and take the missing classes? 

Christine Gagnon: No, they warn you ahead of time. This is for my program. They warn you ahead of time. If you change your mind, you’re back on, you know, the road to, to the JD from the, the starting [00:08:00] line.

You don’t get that credit, which I think makes sense because some of the classes I’ve taken very specifically in isolation and, and you’re in a different mindset, I think, than when you’re going to school to be, uh, a JD and you’re, you’re sitting for the bar. I think it’s just a bit of a different mindset as opposed to me.

I knew exactly which skills. I wanted to cover, I knew I wanted to do contract law specifically, so I did that my first semester. Then I knew I had, um, some employment law items I wanted to look at, and again, very targeted, focused. So it’s a different, different way of thinking about it. I think 

Michael Mitchel: I, I always, I guess that dispels the, the urban myth that you don’t actually have to go to law school, get a JD to, to take the bar and become a practicing attorney.

You just have to pass the bar. But I guess you actually have to have a JD to take the bar. 

Christine Gagnon: I think so I’m probably not the expert. Um, I don’t know if I’d attempt that. I know you can’t be a CPA without your relevant, uh, academic qualifications that I do know because I am A-C-P-A-I 

Michael Mitchel: can barely do my [00:09:00] checkbook, so that, that, that’s definitely not gonna be a problem for me.

I’ll have to face, I didn’t say 

Christine Gagnon: I could. 

Michael Mitchel: Well, no, I wanna expand. Where does your passion for continuing education come from and why? I mean, you know, I, I remember we’ve had this conversation before. Look, I, when I, when I look at your bio and all of education, part of me just wanted to call you and say, stop.

You’ve got it. On the other hand, it’s just like, these are some really interesting programs you’re doing. 

Christine Gagnon: I think it is a couple of factors. Initially, when I was in middle school, early high school, I did not enjoy education at all, and I, I wasn’t, I didn’t have very good grades, I would say until. Until high school when you could start to choose the classes you wanna take, and obviously university you can, can choose your path.

So I I probably a couple things. First is my upbringing. My [00:10:00] mother’s Vietnamese, um, my father’s American. There’s a lot of emphasis I think. For higher education, for really advancing yourself and, um, focusing on making sure you can get into a good university, et cetera, et cetera. And so that was a driver.

And I think when, when I started to, to follow that path of accounting and I started to go into business, I really saw the value behind those studies and that return, if you will. And so it, it just to me, became more and more interesting. In the beginning, I would say it was nice to, and you can’t see behind me, but you know, I do have the degrees on the wall and some of it maybe in the beginning was a little bit of, okay, I can.

It’s an accomplishment. It makes me feel more confident. Um, but I would say after I finished my Master’s in accounting, that it really shifted to me, it was more about personal enrichment, about learning, about being able to be more well-rounded. I didn’t, I never intended to be an accountant. That to me is very.

[00:11:00] Specialized. It’s, um, very sort of linear in thinking and I really wanted to understand business, the multifaceted aspects of business, economics, legal side, finance, accounting, strategy. And so to continue to go back to school and learn, continue to build my network, all those things have helped me feel more comfortable and, and confident.

Um, I think rightfully so. 

Michael Mitchel: Are you first or second gen? 

Christine Gagnon: So I’m first generation for, um, my mother’s side of the family. My mom, um, came to the US during the Vietnam War. 

Michael Mitchel: Okay. And 

Christine Gagnon: yeah, she was in, she was actually in pharmacy school, um, in Vietnam and had to cut her study short. Um. 

Michael Mitchel: A previous guest, Casey Wu.

Um, he was the former CFO of WeWork, and now he is at Hello Landing. He’s from a situation first Gen Cambodia, and he, he, he talked to the [00:12:00] family expectation, pressure, encouragement, whatever word you wanna use on education. Um, so yeah, I, I, I’m first gen for college myself. I think that’s more common than people may realize.

Christine Gagnon: I also felt that I would call it pressure, and I believe that’s why earlier on my mediocre grades in middle school and maybe the first couple years in high school was probably more rebellious than anything. Then when I
got over that and decided this is in my best interest, it, it will reap a return and it’s interesting.

Then the tables turned and it became something I was passionate about as opposed to something I was being told I needed to do. I don’t really love that. 

Michael Mitchel: I, my senior in high school, I don’t know how I did, but I graduated with a major in art. I was so not in the school. I really, really wasn’t. I went to bootcamp, but I was still in my junior year.[00:13:00] 

So, uh, my senior year in high school, excuse me, my senior year in high school, I’m drilling on the weekends up at, you know, NA, at the Naval Air Station, Woody Island, Washington. I didn’t, I didn’t get the GI bill ’cause of the way I came in and I didn’t care. ’cause I was like, I’m never going to school ever again.

Turns out I could not have been more wrong and we’re never done learning. Exactly. I mean, you see that all the business, all the books I’ve been, I’ve been buying lately ’cause I’m on this, on this massive, uh, reading binge. 

Christine Gagnon: So I think that’s the, the thing with me is I’m not self-disciplined enough to pick up a book on law and read a bunch of, you know, contract law cases.

It’s much more enjoyable for me to be in a classroom with other people talking about. Cases and learning in an interactive way. I struggle with, with the whole, you know, pick up a book. I, I mean, I do have books behind me, obviously, but, um, more reference material than anything. 

Michael Mitchel: Right. No, I, I’m, I’m not a fiction reader.

I mean, when I’m doing leisure [00:14:00] reading, it’s all history, but lately it’s been a lot of the business reading. What, um, how would you say that all the education’s positively, positively impacted your career? 

Christine Gagnon: It’s definitely a differentiator, it seems. When, when people see my CV or like you had introduced, it’s something that helps me stand out.

Um, but also I think it, it helps me, I think, explain, display the fact that I am intellectually curious. And so if I’m going into, for example, a new industry or a new space and I can’t say, okay, I have that experience. People aren’t as hesitant to engage me in a new endeavor because they feels okay, well she can learn that, she can do that, she can switch to this, she can move to this country.

It shows a certain level of agility that. I think makes me stand out. Um, so that’s probably the, the number [00:15:00] one positive factor. And then number two is I think I, um, especially in this role, the CEO and I talk about so many different things, it shows versatility in the ability to have a conversation, to think, I don’t, I don’t necessarily only deal with finance and accounting or CFO type issues every day.

Mm-hmm. I deal with the gamut around the business. And, and I think that is, um. Sort of a byproduct of, of the types of learning and experiences I’ve had. 

Michael Mitchel: Would you say that, you know, are some of these, uh, like the master’s in legal say, is that online or is that in person? 

Christine Gagnon: It was hybrid. So your, you have a choice.

You can take classes on campus or you can do it. Live online, if that makes sense. So you’re on a Zoom, you have to have your camera on, you have to participate. They do the regular law school cold calling, which is always fun. So it’s highly interactive. You have to manage time zones and travel. And so no, it wasn’t [00:16:00] virtual where you had the flexibility to, to do it as you will, which I preferred because I liked being in class live, talking with other people, learning from the professors.

It’s very valuable. 

Michael Mitchel: Did. When you’re in person, and I mean you, you’re in a room full of people of your caliber and your level, did you find that just organically, it also became a professional networking opportunity? I mean, is there relationships that you know, to this day you’ve maintained? 

Christine Gagnon: I would say yes at the MBA level, so in terms of my network, MBA, the MBA program at Yukon was very valuable from a networking perspective.

I have many close friends and. Uh, personal close friends as well as professional, I’d say colleagues in my network that I met through MBA school. I think the, the legal study program’s a little bit different because I did stand out there weren’t, hopefully I’m not, um, speaking out of line here, but I don’t believe there are, there [00:17:00] are many senior executives in that program.

Um, and so it was. Unique for me, I was able to interact with a diverse group of people, which is unique in a different way. Um, and, and I think it was just as valuable. 

Michael Mitchel: Well, the other thing I gotta ask is how did you find the time? I mean, from my perspective, first off, everything I know about search is, is self-taught.

I hung out my shingle, no one, and I just started doing it. Right. So I’ve thought about from time to time, I really wish I could go back and like get my MBA or my executive MBA, but I’m running my business. I’m running a, a veteran nonprofit in life. I don’t have the time. Where did you find time for all of this?

I mean, I don’t think it was co 

Christine Gagnon: it was COVID. Huh? It was during COVID. So I started my studies January. 21, I believe. Um, and I went full-time. [00:18:00] It’s a quarterly system, so every quarter I went full time and it was evenings, it was weekends. It was all my spare time. But that being said, I, we were locked down for a good portion of that.

So I had a lot of extra time and I knew that, that’s why I said to myself, I’m gonna hit this pretty hard. I’m going to take all the classes that I can. That way when things open back up, when I’m back in New York. I’ll be able to manage it now. When I went back to New York, I was still taking two or three classes a quarter, which, you know, more than three classes would be, I think three classes actually full-time.

And it was intense, but because it’s something I enjoyed, I didn’t mind coming home from work and reading a couple of cases, or getting online and having a conversation with my classmates. It was the same as going out to a dinner with a colleague or something like that. 

Michael Mitchel: What, um, I, I think you may have redefined the term intellectual [00:19:00] curiosity.

Um, what would you say was the most interesting and the most challenging executive education program that you, uh, experienced? 

Christine Gagnon: I think it was the design thinking at Stanford because it’s out of my element to think that way. I am used to solving problems in a very mechanical or mathematical way, and I know that.

We numbers, people need to think outside the box more and think more about the qualitative factors and see the forest for the trees. It’s one thing to say that I think when I went to the design thinking program, you, it really turns that decision making on its head the traditional decision-making and helps you.

Rethink how problems are solved, think more broadly, think differently, and in some ways think granular to pull problems apart, but a different way of bringing them back together. So it was interesting because outta my element, I would say that was probably the most challenging in that way. 

Michael Mitchel: What was the, the [00:20:00] one from?

From Harvard Business School. 

Christine Gagnon: I did corporate strategy, I did customer experience. And I did one other program that escapes me now, but all again, I think focused on, oh, I was leading professional services firms because at the time I believe I was at ey. 

Michael Mitchel: Mm-hmm. And, and so were any of these why you’re at EY and, and how did you balance those tho that those two.

Christine Gagnon: The firms have always been pretty supportive. Uh, if I recall correctly, I did one while I was at pwc or maybe leaving pwc one while I was at the bank, and then one when I was at ey. And generally speaking, those are all sponsored in terms of company support. So. Literally you have your, a very senior person in the company signing off that, that you’ll get the support you need [00:21:00] from your organization.

And I’ve always found that to be the case. It was never, those were never a struggle for me. 

Michael Mitchel: So TEDx presentations, hand gliding, the education, uh, the careers and some of your, your roles I know have included, you know, wearing hats around GC and hr. Um. I mean, I’m just gonna sound a little, you know, a gush, but you know, you really seem, Christine have a passion for living life.

What, what’s next for you? I 

Christine Gagnon: would love to say that I know, but I, I don’t know. I’d love to continue on the CFO journey. We’re doing a lot of great things. In Africa, I’ll
continue to learn. I don’t know what degree is next and I don’t know when, but I’m sure there will come a time for, for that. 

Michael Mitchel: Yeah, I was not expecting to see it all.

I, I didn’t see that coming. 

Christine Gagnon: So I, I think the uncertainty of life and, um, the fact that it’s not all figured out makes it exciting. So I don’t know exactly, but I like the [00:22:00] path that, that I’m on. 

Michael Mitchel: So not talking, I’m not talking regrets, but when you look back at at in your career, was there something that you would’ve done differently?

Like a a strategic decision, you know, some major event business. Business event? 

Christine Gagnon: I always think to myself, should I have stayed at PWC to make partner and every time. I think that I remind myself that I wouldn’t be here today if I didn’t make that choice to deviate from that plan, because that was certainly the plan at a certain point in time.

But for me, it just didn’t feel like the right path. So that’s probably the one thing that comes to mind. Not repeatedly, but more often than 10 times for sure. 

Michael Mitchel: Mm-hmm. 

Christine Gagnon: And I, I would say it’s not, it hasn’t reached a level to regret. I don’t think it will. I have so many great friends from the firm. I’m still very close to the firm.

Um, but it is something I think about. But I, I’m [00:23:00] also a believer that. Things happen for a reason, and this has worked out quite well.