In “C-Suite Perspective in Leading with Authenticity,” Doug Gattuso shares why true leadership is about focusing on opportunities and outcomes—not titles or ego. A veteran of the Naval Academy and Marine Corps, Doug reflects on a career spanning executive roles including President and Chief Customer Officer. He explains why burning bridges is never wise, the lessons gained from international work experiences in Prague and India, and how patience, teamwork, and humility shape long-term success. Doug’s story is a reminder that authentic leadership and continuous contribution create lasting impact in any organization.
For the full interview: https://ocns.co/c-suite-perspective-in-leading-with-authenticity/
10 Min Clip Transcript
Michael Mitchel: [00:00:00] All right. I’m gonna kick it.
Joining us from Fort Wayne, Indiana on CXO conversations is Doug coso. Hello, Michael. Hey, how’s it going? Doug? Doug has been stand. Doug’s been with Prometheus group for three years and during his career he’s held executive roles, including president and CCO Doug. We, which we’ll get to what A CCO is in a few minutes.
Doug started his career on the right path by attending the US Naval Academy, but things got kind of weird upon graduation when he chose the Marines instead of the Navy. Go Navy. Doug and I will be talk. We’ll be talking about leaving and returning to a company while the focus should always be on the opportunity and the outcomes, but not a title and why, uh, Doug, thanks for joining us.
And let’s just get outta the way real quick. Why the Marines instead of the Navy?
Doug Gattuso: Well, Michael, my, uh, my father and my brother both also graduated from the [00:01:00] Naval Academy. We’re both naval aviators. So when I graduated it was, uh, it was put on me to return honor to the family and have to go into the Marine Corps, uh, justify this whole thing.
But no, I love the, uh, love the Naval Academy, love the Navy. It’s a great, I have so many great friends that it made a career outta the Navy, um, and the Marine Corps. But, uh, no, it’s just a, uh, I had great experience in, in, um. Going to a Naval Academy prep school called the Marine Military Academy in Harlans in Texas in 19 79, 19 80.
And, um, I don’t know, once you got exposed to, to those types of marines from, from Korea and Vietnam, I just, I wanted to be part of that organization.
Michael Mitchel: I get that. You know, the one thing I will say, ’cause I am, I am Navy, the Marines, and we’ve talked about this before, I mean, all the, all the veterans have the sense of comradery.
But the Marines are just, they’re, they’re, they’re in like concentrate. Right. So I am a little use of that. I will, I will say that. I get it. So when [00:02:00] you got out, your first gig, if I’m not mistaken, was, was with EDS. So how’d that come about? Why EDS? Why technology?
Doug Gattuso: Sure. Um, so my, my dad, uh, ended up getting into it, outsourcing.
He spent some time with General Electric in the semiconductor industry and then kind of noticed what Ross Perot was doing with outsourcing. Mm-hmm. And, uh, being a competitive guy, he said, well, if he could do it, I could do it. Uh, now he never did it at the scale that Mr. Perot did. Uh, but he did, uh, he did pretty well and he started some outsourcing companies, actually ended up selling one to, uh, to EDS Perot way back when.
So, um, I had, you know, got a TRS 80 in high school and taught myself programming and, uh, I knew that I wanted to be in that field. I enjoyed it. So, uh, once I, my commitment was, uh, was over, I wanted to join EDS and changed my. Cami suit to a dark blue Navy suit and went to work.
Michael Mitchel: See, you just can’t get away from the [00:03:00] Navy.
Right. I
Doug Gattuso: know.
Michael Mitchel: I’m sorry. I couldn’t pass that up. Um, you know, I miss EDS ’cause my, when I first started doing search, um, my, my, my first client was Siemens and we pulled a lot of people outta EDS. Um, yeah, I, I, I miss EDS. It
Doug Gattuso: was a great company. And, uh, you know, there’s, there’s a funny saying in, in, in, in and with our theme today, it’s, it’s always the, uh, it was a, it was a great first and third company to join,
Michael Mitchel: right?
Yeah. So we’re gonna talk about that. I think you and I first met when you were at CSC, if I’m not mistaken. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so yeah, so let’s talk a little bit about that. ’cause how many times ’cause EDS, um, utopia Norris, um, is there another company you’ve used?
Doug Gattuso: No, no, those are the three that, uh, I was fortunate enough to be invited back for a second time, each one, so.
You know, the, the, the old, uh, military, uh, story of burning the ships, you know, and then no turning back. And [00:04:00] that doesn’t work in the commercial world, right? You shouldn’t burn your ships, you shouldn’t burn your bridges. Um, so, you know, I, I always found that it was, and I, and maybe it’s always, I left for the right reasons, right?
And I communicated with my leadership of what I was doing and why I was doing, uh, what I, you know, my decisions. Um, and it’s a small world, right? No matter what industry you operate in. You know, that, that gets even smaller. Um, so at that time there was only three major firms in the outsourcing space, E-D-S-I-B-M, and CSC.
Um, so yeah, you know, I always tried to do my best and, and, um, I don’t think anybody can argue with, uh, looking for more opportunity and progressing one’s career. So, uh, three different times. Uh, the, the journey kind of went back to where it started. It was a good experience in each, in each time.
Michael Mitchel: You know, I think the whole era of those outsourcing companies, ’cause also you can include at some point hp, uh, Unisys Siemens slash you know, autos end up buying [00:05:00] Siemens.
Um, there’s been so much consolidation in this space. Yeah, yeah. Um, acs, right? I mean, I’m sure we’re forgetting a couple, but even no side deals don’t exist anymore. I think SaaS has changed that, but yeah. Of course I’m biased, I’m gonna sound old, you know, get outta my yard. But there’s something about the client executive sales role I really enjoy ’cause they do some really interesting deals.
Doug Gattuso: Yeah, yeah. I mean, the first outsourcing deal I ever sold was a 10 year full ITO, you know, started with a letter, didn’t even have email man, mailed the letter, called the CEOA week later, you know, did the follow up thing. And, uh, it took a year, 12 months to close that. Um, sure times have changed.
Technology’s changed. Uh, you know, I think Moore’s Law kind of overtook everybody. Yeah. Um, and nobody was gonna sign those long-term commitments anymore. And
Michael Mitchel: oh, I remember years ago I was doing a search for Siemens and I talked to, this is the harks, back to the days of [00:06:00] those big deals. I talked to Noles and four salespeople.
Who claimed that they were the one that sold the billion dollar Proctor and Gamble outsourcing deal. Right. I was like, you did? He’s like, yep. Oh, so were you part of a team or a different tower? He’s like, Nope, I did it all. I’m like, you did? Oh, interesting. ’cause that’s what the other three people said,
Doug Gattuso: success has many fathers.
Uh, and
Michael Mitchel: I just like, this is what I love about sales people.
Doug Gattuso: Right, right.
Michael Mitchel: Um, so why did you come back to EDS and, you know, um. Tell me a little bit about that. I mean, because it kinda tees up to the other two.
Doug Gattuso: Yeah. You know, there’s always a mix of personal and professional motivations on, on these things, and I had left EDS to actually go work for the company that I sold an outsourcing deal to.
I mean, we spent a year getting to know each other. We really enjoyed that and I guess we just didn’t want the party to end. So I actually went and joined an operating company. I managed, uh, 12 short line railroads around, uh, north America, into Canada, uh, [00:07:00] Mexico. And um, then I found myself in Brazil for about 45 days straight with a young wife at the time, uh, in San Antonio.
And my boys were, well, probably about a year and maybe three years old. Didn’t know a soul in San Antonio just went down to work for this company. And, um, that stretch was gonna turn into a much longer, uh, duration. And, uh, I just didn’t want to be away from my family that long. So that was a real personal choice.
And, um, when I had left EDS, my, uh, sales, uh, leader said, Hey, anytime you wanna come back, you’re welcome. So,
Michael Mitchel: and that’s the way it should be when people leave. I called him up and said,
Doug Gattuso: remember what you said? He goes, absolutely. So. I think that was like on a Thursday and I was back at EDS on Monday.
Michael Mitchel: Oh, how long were you gone for?
Doug Gattuso: No, I mean I, I went right back to Oh, it was about a year. Yeah, it was about a year. A year. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Michael Mitchel: So [00:08:00] your, your badge is probably still floating around somewhere. Yeah.
Doug Gattuso: And, and he was right. I was, I was way more knowledgeable about the rail industry and transportation in general. So that’s what I focused on when I went back.
Michael Mitchel: So, yeah, so, and I hope I, I’m pronouncing correctly. Ni NIUs.
Doug Gattuso: NIUs.
Michael Mitchel: NIUs, yeah. Um, so you were there, you left and then you came back. Let’s talk a little bit about why you left and kind of what you, what that whole evolution was like for you.
Doug Gattuso: Yeah, so I think, uh, I think that was a really good lesson. Um, and, and one point I would like to make is, um, is patience is a learned skill.
So when I left New York the first time I was. Probably at the peak of my, my, you know, career, um, I had taken over a pretty meager business unit that was, you know, sub $10 million about doing about eight and a half million dollars a year. And, um, redid the strategy, um, rebuilt a team, um, [00:09:00] and within four years, uh, through a mix of outsourcing, application outsourcing and large SAP projects.
We were at a run rate near $50 million. So it was a great run in four years. And, uh, you know, the company was thinking about, uh, monetizing themselves and the parent was gonna sell new.
Michael Mitchel: Well, I wanna jump in ’cause you grew it from 8 million to 50.
Doug Gattuso: Yeah, yeah,
Michael Mitchel: yeah.
Doug Gattuso: Oh, me and the team, I wanna Well,
Michael Mitchel: yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
No. Yep. It’s a for it.
Doug Gattuso: Yep. Yep. But you know what, I will say it did take someone outside the organization with a different vision. Um, and then create the team that would believe in the vision. ’cause at the time, that company had a, a pretty good set of experience with SAP in Latin America, but none in the US And I had quite a bit of SAP experience in the us, particularly around application outsourcing.
So I knew what was possible, so I was just the intersection between what they could do and what I [00:10:00] knew was possible. And, um, frankly, the directors that were, were there with the company at the time couldn’t see that. They, they, they couldn’t understand how we were going to sell against tier one, you know, sis in the US and how we were gonna execute this application, outsourcing across the borders.
And, and we just changed that. Uh, got some people in there that, that never knew it wasn’t possible because they’ve done it somewhere else. So, um, yeah, at the, um, at my year performance review, the CEO said, you know, when I interviewed you, I really thought you were crazy, but I thought, what the heck? What do I have to lose?
And I said, what was it that gave you the impression I was crazy? And he said, well, during the interview, he said, this is not rocket science. All it’s gonna take is a couple $25 million deals, and we’ll turn this business right around. And that’s what happened within the first year. [00:11:00] It was a bit of pointing to the fence, but I mean, that’s what I, I had done that with CSC, so I thought, why?
Why can’t we do it here? I didn’t know any better.
Michael Mitchel: So did you think, what was, it was crazy, your confidence that you’re like, oh, this is no big deal. Or the fact that you thought, oh, just a couple of $25 million deals, which is nothing.
Doug Gattuso: Um. I think it was, they had never sold a deal over 5 million. Okay. Yeah.
Why would you think we could sell a 25 million deal? Right. So it was just this, a frame of reference. Um, and so when we, uh, when we got to the point where we had turned things around in, in the US and parts of the other, um, you know, the other geography was doing pretty well. The company was for up for sale.
And, and I think I got, uh, a bit arrogant and I got impatient. Uh, I didn’t see how I was gonna participate in that event. Um, you know, and I thought I was bulletproof, right? I just got off this, this four year great run. And frankly, I was immature. I, I shouldn’t have jumped and gone and pursued the next thing, [00:12:00] um, thinking that, you know, if I, I do it here, I could do it anywhere.
Um, and that goes back to the team sport. It’s not the case. You really need the right team around you. Um, and I saw that, uh, frequently, like from people going from CSC where we had a lot of struggles, a lot of challenges, um, you know, the big outsourcing group versus the consulting group and, you know, people that, that left CSC, a lot of them became really successful were, you know, whether they went to Accenture or Deloitte to ENY.
You know, they all, they all thrived. So it’s the team that, um, is around you that I think is really gonna dictate, you know, your
Michael Mitchel: end performance. So yeah, you le as I recall, you left as a president.
Doug Gattuso: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was president of the US business unit. It was, it was great. It was a fun role. I had, you know, every aspect of the business, sales and marketing and analyst relationships and finance.
Uh, it was great, great role. But,
Michael Mitchel: but then you got the call. [00:13:00] Come back.
Doug Gattuso: I did. Um, it was, and with a different CEO too, by the way. And it was an individual who was a peer of mine, uh, while I was there. The, the first time, um, they had a different strategy. They wanted to be more of a digital transformation agent and high content and building apps, and less so around SAP.
But, um, uh, they invited me back and very quickly they asked me to, um. Lead the, the parent account. Uh, New York is owned by a company called Cemex out in, uh, down in Monterey, Mexico. Um, so it was the largest account that they had and, and always critical when you’re, you know, in a parent child relationship like that.
So, um, new CIO not from Cemex didn’t, traditionally the CIOs would come from the ranks. This was someone from outside the organization and, um, I think they just felt they wanted somebody who had a little more. Tier one large scale experience and managing those [00:14:00] types of relationships. So,
Michael Mitchel: so did you have a title or did you, I mean, it sounds like you’re doing high-end sales.
Doug Gattuso: Um, it was, I don’t, I don’t remember what the title was. Um, it’d be like a client partner role in, in firm. Yeah. So you, so on, so everything on the account I, I managed Right. It was probably about 450 people. Anywhere from, you know, 40 to $50 million in revenue, pretty, pretty high visible, um, role within the organization.
Michael Mitchel: So, so you went, you left as a president, you come back as essentially a client partner, and that’s the role they hired you for, but the story doesn’t end there. I mean, that’s what you thought you were coming into.
Doug Gattuso: But yeah, things get
Michael Mitchel: interesting.
Doug Gattuso: Well, and, and the, uh, the new CEO had a philosophy of, of no presidents.
Nobody had the title anywhere in the organization. It was no country managers, no presidents. Everybody was equal. Go off and do your thing, lead, create [00:15:00] whatever organizations you needed to be successful if you could justify it. And, uh, you know, there was a lot of reading of the most popular business books at the time.
And, and I’m, I’m not convinced that it was the right strategy, frankly. ’cause uh, they haven’t quite had the success that, that we had in the past since then. So, um, they’re, I’m sure they’re doing fine. I don’t keep up with them totally. But, um, I do know what the, the kind of, the condition of the US organization is.
So, you know. Yeah, I didn’t care about the title. I cared about an opportunity to contribute and, and, um, I think that’s, you know, even with my current situation of, you know, being the chief customer officer of an organization that was acquired by a, a bigger, more financially successful organization, um, and then, and.
You know, without the title, uh, just come in, contribute. Here’s our objectives, can you help us or not? Um, and your [00:16:00] leadership will remain regardless of your title, and your ability to influence will remain regardless of your title. Um, so if you get caught up in those titles, I think you could stumble and, and worry about some of the wrong things.
Um, in, in this case, when we were acquired, we had a couple of. People that didn’t really have the patience to play it out and to wait and see how they could contribute and how they could add value. And they did get caught up in, well, I was, I had a leadership role in Company A and here they’re asking me to be an individual contributor.
I don’t like that. Well, okay, but you didn’t play it out to see what was next, what happened in the next six months or the 12 months after that. And everybody’s different and everybody has their own frame of reference. But you know, when I look back and, and think about my lack of patience for leaving New York at the wrong time, uh, at the peak of, you know, as a, when I was in the president role, um, [00:17:00] I had to fall on that patience this time and say, heck, wait a minute, okay, we’re, we’re getting acquired.
What’s the best thing for me right now? And I chose to, to, you know, put the ego aside. And pay attention to what’s going on around me. Uh, we are owned by a pretty successful private equity firm, and this firm’s been very successful, so I wanted to learn how they did it. And, you know, at some point, and obviously I’m incented to, to stay and, and make the successful and make it the, the acquisition worthwhile.
Um, some, at some point, you know, there’ll be another face and I’ll, I’ll, I’ll move to another role. And, uh, I’m sure I’ll use what I learned here in the last, you know, 12, 18 months through the acquisition, plus what I’ve, you know, my entire career of, uh, experience in what, in the next role. So, um, moving around I think is fine.
Always having a way to contribute, I think is where you’re gonna progress.
Michael Mitchel: But yeah, so there’s, so to [00:18:00] continue that, that, that, um, opportunity, right? You come back as a client partner and you. You seized opportunities ’cause you ended up going to Prague. Yeah. You ended up opening up, ended up opening up an office in India,
Doug Gattuso: right?
Yeah. Yeah. It was a great experience. I mean, that was at the tip of a very large global digital transformation project. Uh, really changing the entire customer experience from, you know, ordering, you know, to to, to receiving the product. Um, was building material supplies, concrete ready mix, aggregate, those types of things.
Uh, I, I did, I, I went to, to Prague. Lived in Prague for a year. That’s where the CIO was sitting, opened up a brand new office there. Uh, hired about 250, you know, um, various developers, scrum team leaders. It was all agile. Uh, and also, uh, had an opportunity to go to Gorgon, uh, outside of Deli, do the same thing, office, open another office there from scratch.
I mean. [00:19:00] Pouring concrete in the floors, um, uh, oh my goodness, from scratch. Um, and we hired about a hundred people there, uh, to get started within and first time, uh, you know, really interesting because Cemex is, as I said, from Monterey, Mexico and New had always been there. Um, in-house development team, they had done a lot of work with IBM as well, but.
This was the first time that they hired developers outside of, of Mexico. So we had teams in, in Prague and in, uh, in India.
Michael Mitchel: Did you go straight from Prague to India?
Doug Gattuso: I did, yeah.
Michael Mitchel: So, um. You know, there’s a thing called culture shock, right? I experienced a little bit of that when I, ’cause I was stationed in Japan for two years in the eighties and I came back to California.
Um, and there was a little bit of a adjustment. I didn’t have much that, I didn’t have so much culture shock when I landed in Japan. ’cause that’s why I joined the Navy was to travel. Did you, did you have a culture shock going from the states to Prague, but then what was like going from Prague to India?
Because those two, I mean, I mean you’re [00:20:00] going from Eastern Europe. To India. Yeah, those are, yeah, the cultures are very
Doug Gattuso: different. Um, yeah, I had some experience with, with India and, and offshore at CSC, so it wasn’t the first time that I’d, I’d been in Indian, worked a lot with some offshore firms. Um, uh, Prague was interesting, some really, um, a melting pot of, of the region.
So in Prague you’ll find technical resources from. From Poland and Slovakia and Germany and Italy everywhere, right? Mm-hmm. They would come to PRA ’cause products. One, it’s beautiful. It’s a really pretty city.
Michael Mitchel: It’s on my bucket list. Yeah. Yeah.
Doug Gattuso: My, my daughter said it was like living in a Disney movie. Um, and it’s a very affordable location, so a lot of people from from Europe would wanna come and locate to, to Prague.
So, and, and frankly, a really good talent pool, rich talent pool to hire from. Reasonable, reasonable costs. Um, yeah. Cultural [00:21:00] norms are quite different between, say, Prague and, and central Europe to, to India. Um, but for me, I, I mean, no, I didn’t have a sh it wasn’t a culture shock. Um, by, at that point I had enough experience to understand what the differences were and what was important to the types of people that, you know, we were hir in, in Prague versus, uh, you know, the technical resources we’re recruiting for in India.
Michael Mitchel: So how long were you outta the states for, between Prague and India?
Doug Gattuso: That
Michael Mitchel: was about
Doug Gattuso: 18 months and I was, you know, oh that long. I was still having to travel to to Monterey, Mexico, so I was on a constant rotation between. Monterey Prague, India. I cranked up a lot of miles,
Michael Mitchel: but, but I, I think for most people this would be a big deal.
But I mean, you’re active duty, so you were on the move back then too, so you’re, you’re used to this kind of traveling.
Doug Gattuso: I, I didn’t mind it at all. Um, you know, and I traveled a lot throughout my career. What I didn’t like was three cities in one week. That was, that was tough. Um, I remember having to. [00:22:00] Pull out the phone book in a hotel room and put it on the nightstand next to me.
So when I woke up in a panic, I would look and see where I was almost
Michael Mitchel: like a, but
Doug Gattuso: uh, going to, you know, going to three cities and I’d stay for, you know, weeks at a time. That wasn’t bad at all. Yeah. The time zones would catch up to me when. And I would, uh, get home once in a while, but Right. Other than that, it wasn’t bad.
Michael Mitchel: So Utopia was, sometimes you hear the term retread, but I don’t know if that’s derogatory or not, but Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You came back to, but you came back. So when you came back to Utopia, you were a CCO. What is a CCO?
Doug Gattuso: Yeah. Chief Customer Officer had, uh, all things related to sales, uh, and marketing. And, uh, had a couple of, you know, kind of unique, uh, service practices, uh, strategic value management and dealt with, uh, alliances and partnerships, analyst relationships, things like that.
Michael Mitchel: So is it different from a [00:23:00] CRO or is it the same but just the different title?
Doug Gattuso: Uh, all the responsibilities of A CRO? Probably with, with a little bit more, um. But yeah, you would call it very similar.
Michael Mitchel: Okay. And then, uh, how about the difference between A-C-R-O-C-C-O to a, we’re getting a lot of acronyms here.
A CSO, chief Sales Officer?
Doug Gattuso: Um, yeah, so that would be a component of a, for me, that was a one part of my job. Um, ’cause I had, I did have the, the marketing and the analysts and, uh, we had two other practices that were very specific in what they did. Um, so yeah, you know, at the end of the day. It’s all about sales.
Yep. Uh, one thing has to lead to that, uh, one way or another. Right. Nothing really happens till something solid, as they say. Um, so I, I got comfortable in front of customers and representing the firm that, that I stood behind, um, pretty early in my career.
Michael Mitchel: Mm-hmm.
Doug Gattuso: And, and I enjoyed, you know, actually the relationships with different analyst firms over [00:24:00] the years.
You know, like a Gartner or Forester. Um, still basically selling the firm and then helping the analysts understand our capabilities so they could evaluate us properly and also, you know, give guidance to their customers as necessary.
Michael Mitchel: It seems like in the last seven years, give or take, there’s been more variations of the C-level titles.
You know, before, I mean especially, you know, it was always just, you had your traditional C-E-O-C-O-O, maybe Chief Sales officer, but now you’re starting to see more like Chief Diversity Officer, CPO, chief People Officer, um, where, you know, ’cause now we’re seeing like the CHRO role being used in different terminology.
Yeah. Um. So I guess over here at OC National Search, I’m gonna, I’m the CMO, the Chief Michael Officer.
Doug Gattuso: Alright. I’m the C level. Well, you know, it’s, it’s a, you’re making a point Yeah. That there’s all these titles out there. At the end of the day, it’s, you know, you’ve got responsibility [00:25:00] and you’ve got an opportunity to make a difference.
You have an opportunity to contribute to the company’s objectives. And whether you’re doing that on a small scale or a large scale, right? Um, it all depends on really what, you know, your span of experience and what you’re comfortable in putting on your shoulders and, and, uh, you know, how you view yourself as a leader in the organization.
And even in this case, I view myself as a leader in this company. But I don’t have the title, right. Yeah. I’m not a, I’ve been, I’ve been acquired, uh, the firm had been quite successful before they acquired us. I think we were the seventh acquisition or so in the last three years. Um, and so our executive team has an executive team.
They have trusted, they, they, they surrounded themselves with their trusted advisors. And it would be naive of me to think that I would just by title. Enter into that. So, uh, I’m enjoying my role here. I’m enjoying the company. Uh, I’m working with a lot of [00:26:00] very bright people, very sales driven culture, and I know that this company will continue to do very well.
Michael Mitchel: And as, as your history has shown, never worry about the title. ’cause you never know what the next, what the opportunity will present itself. Right, right. When he rise to the occasion. Um, excuse me. What, um, when you look back at your career, what’s been your biggest takeaway? Obviously you learn a lot by walking away is, which I think is really important.
You, you are the president and you said, oh, you know, I’m better than this. Now I can do more. And you had a little bit of a humble pie, sounds like, and you learned from that. Yeah. I went off
Doug Gattuso: and bought a couple of restaurants, thought I was gonna do something different and mixed up the idea between a hobby and a profession.
Michael Mitchel: Yeah. So what advice would you give to someone who wants to be, you know, a C level executive, a c alphabet?
Doug Gattuso: Um, check your ego. Just, just, um, last several years I’ve been, uh, [00:27:00] Ryan Holiday’s, an author out there right now. He’s, he writes a lot about stoic philosophy and he wrote a book called, uh, ego is the Enemy.
And, um, I read that and even at, you know, my age and years of experience, it was pretty much a gut check and it, it, it grabbed me by the shoulders and shook some sense into me. ’cause I can look back over my career and see, hey, these decisions were emotionally driven. Um, uh, and I, I left too soon or I left for the wrong reasons.
Um, and, you know. I think I took my eye off the ball. Um, I’m, I’m glad I learned that lesson when I did, uh, because I think it’s helped me through this transition of being acquired. Um, and I would say just keep looking for ways to contribute. Don’t look for the credit unnecessarily. I mean, that, that’s not the, the reason to do it.
The reason is you’re gonna [00:28:00] make a difference. And as someone who sat in the C-suite. Trust me, it gets noticed. You, you know it all. I would, you know, always look for the opportunity to recognize someone’s contribution. Um, right. And you do those types of things publicly so they get that recognition. Um, so don’t think it goes unnoticed.
Um, now obviously you could be taken advantage of in certain customer, uh, you know, organizations and, and every culture’s different. But I would say, you know, focus on the outcome. Focus on how you can contribute and what you’re learning, um, because you know, nothing asks actually lasts forever. Um, but your knowledge and what you learn and how to contribute to firms that go with you when you decide to make a move.
Michael Mitchel: I’ve, I’ve got a client, we’re actually approaching our double digit anniversary and he’s an SVP of sales and I asked him, you know, how come you don’t have the CSO title? He’s like, I don’t [00:29:00] care about titles. I mean, that says a lot about him. He doesn’t, you know, I mean, he does the job of like, technically he could be, you know, he could just swap out his business cards whenever he wants.
Sure. You know, it’s just not, you know, it also feeds right back into the company culture and the sales culture there.
Doug Gattuso: Right.
Michael Mitchel: Which
Doug Gattuso: is,
Michael Mitchel: you know, yeah. Which is why, yeah, go ahead.
Doug Gattuso: Sales. Sales. Really, when you’re sales driven, um, titles mean even less, right? Um, the most important thing is the comp plan. I was gonna say, call me.
You want making sure you’re, uh, you’re, you’re being compensated fairly, um, worry less about the base and more about the the upside, uh, because that’s where you’re gonna, you’re gonna really hit, hit some home runs, I think.
Michael Mitchel: Yeah. What I look for when I talk to, uh, salespeople and they’re like, you know, call me whenever you want, as long as you’re paying me.
Doug Gattuso: Right, right, right, right. And and they value your contribution, right? Yeah. And they don’t take advantage of. You. And, um, and I think that’s, you know, that’s a big aspect of [00:30:00] cult company cultures that, you know, you people will, will tolerate a lot of misgivings. Uh, maybe we don’t have the right processes or there’s a little bit too much bureaucracy, but, you know, I think if you, if you are recognizing that you’re contributing and making a difference in the firm and, and the firm is recognizing you for that and you feel a part of that organization.
Goes a long way.
Michael Mitchel: How do you see the, the C-level role, um, cha has changed over the last X year? Seven, 10 years?
Doug Gattuso: Wow. Seven, 10 years.
Michael Mitchel: Um, or what XI mean, what, whatever, whatever timeframe you want. ’cause I’m sure things are changing. Um, you know, there’s obviously, there’s more conversation around DEI, for example, and inclusion and culture has become more of an issue.
Doug Gattuso: Yeah. I think what’s important constantly is a moving target. Um, obviously financial performance is always there, but some of the other social aspects of, you know, being in a leadership role and, and being a, [00:31:00] you know, um, I remember when I took the role with, I consciously thought about, okay, I better change.
I need to be careful what I put on Facebook, right? I need to be careful about what my social media image portrays. Um,
Michael Mitchel: I think that guy from,
Doug Gattuso: you know, it didn’t, I just wanted to make sure that I didn’t say something that somebody wouldn’t appreciate or, you know, would go the wrong way. So I just, in my mindset, nothing, but, you know, it’s about my, my, my kids, my family.
It’s encouragement. It’s, it’s, it’s a reward. Those were the topics I focused on.
Michael Mitchel: Well, we’re recording this conversation late February, uh, 22, and this week you talk about social media. The president, Estee Lauder got bounced out because of what he was posting on his Instagram. Mm-hmm. You know, um, people think it’s, oh, it’s just my personal account.
But, you know, when you’re that level, you’re representing the company no matter what, what environment you’re in.
Doug Gattuso: Right, right. Um, [00:32:00] yeah, I’ve seen some good behavior from, from, uh. You know, colleagues in the C-suite and I saw bad behavior, right. Things that, that they deserve to be bounced from their job.
Michael Mitchel: What’s the, um, going back, this can’t even go back to your high school years. What’s the worst job you’ve ever had and what has, what have you taken away from it that you still use today?
Doug Gattuso: Um,
Michael Mitchel: I’m a half glass, full kind of guy.
Doug Gattuso: Yeah. I would say, I don’t wanna say a worst job ’cause. I grew up on a farm with a pitchfork and shovel in my hand, which was still, I learned a lot.
Um, you know, I think the hardest job may have been selling outsourcing at EDS. Um, you know, when you’re one guy and you’re given, you know, here’s a territory. Um, and EDS had no experience and we, we didn’t have any references in the rail industry. We had one trucking company, um, [00:33:00] and, and they just say, go make something happen, right?
Yeah. There’s, back then there was no marketing, there was very little, you know, uh, understanding from clients of who you were unless you know, it maybe worked with you in the past. And so if you’re going into a blank industry, they don’t know who you are. Nobody in the rail or trucking industry knew who EDS was.
That was hard, right? Mm-hmm. Because it was cold calling cold letters, um, you know. Visits to really explain what outsourcing was from the ground up to people that may never have heard of it before. Um, so that was a challenge, that was a hard job. Um, ’cause I always felt like, Hey, if you don’t make your number, they’re not gonna keep you around.
Right. You gotta perform. And it was recently, you know, young married guy with two young kids and you know.
Michael Mitchel: Sales, doesn’t it? Starting to put up
Doug Gattuso: or shut up. Right.
Michael Mitchel: Sales. Sales does. Yeah. Talk about a binary, uh, indicator of performance. Yeah. Sales doesn’t get much more than that.
Doug Gattuso: Yeah. Well look, but what I learned from it was, [00:34:00] you know, get to work.
Yeah. You do what you have to do. Um, and, uh, one way or another, if you keep on doing the right things, something good will happen. Right. I, I, the, the first outsourcing deal I sold at CSC. My wife had, uh, signed me up for Indian Guides with my oldest son ’cause I wasn’t spending enough time at home and I wasn’t a big fan of that ’cause it was gonna take me, take time away from what I, my, my objectives.
I’m standing at the threshold on my door, on my way out and I turned to my wife and says, well, maybe I’ll meet someone there. This Indian guides meeting. Long story short, I ended up meeting a guy who’s still a friend of mine today. This has been. 25 years. Uh, he introduced me to the CIO of Dr. Pepper, seven up at the time, uh, who also is still a friend.
I spoke with him this week. And, uh, within six months I had a $25 million outsourcing deal [00:35:00] that came from having to go to Indian Guides. So glad
Michael Mitchel: I went. You know, my wife, my wife and I, we just, we just sold our house in Belize. So we’re talking about what we’re gonna do next, and we’re talking about doing a Nat Geo trip.
We Tahiti today island, and so I’m kinda like, I wonder if I’ll meet something like you just described on that trip. So, yeah.
Doug Gattuso: Yeah, you never know, but keep your mind open.
Michael Mitchel: Look. Um, Doug, I really appreciate your time. I’ve really enjoyed the conversation. Um, thanks for being a guest on the podcast. Um, thanks so much.
Anything else you wanna add in closing? I,
Doug Gattuso: I enjoyed the conversation. Nope. Work hard, play hard.
Michael Mitchel: Okay. And so everyone that’s listening, um, feel free to follow me on LinkedIn. Michael Mitchell at one L. I’m outta Denver and I really should get more active on Twitter, but my handle is M Mitchell one L at 52 80.
Um, thanks [00:36:00] everybody.
