In “CEO Bill Wosilius, Why and How to Prepare for CEO Chair,” Bill Wosilius, who was CEO of NexusTek at the time of recording, shares candid insights on declaring your career goals, assessing situations with clarity, and making the tough executive calls that define leadership. A graduate of the U.S. Air Force Academy, Bill served eight years before moving into executive roles at InFlow, Sungard, Healthgrades, CoreSite, and Optiv, ultimately preparing him for the CEO role. He emphasizes why the best job is the one you have right now, how every experience builds toward the moment of leadership, and why trust, competence, and humility are essential when building strong executive teams.

For the full interview: https://ocns.co/ceo-bill-wosilius-why-and-how-to-prepare-for-ceo-chair/

10 Min Clip Transcript

Michael Mitchel: [00:00:00] Hello, this is Michael Mitchell. I launched the podcast Exploring Talent in 2019. In 2021. I renamed it CXO Conversations. Hope you enjoy this episode and will subscribe to CXO conversations. For more great interviews, visit oc national search.com or your favorite podcast platform and subscribe. Enjoy. All right.

I’m gonna kick it.

Welcome to Exploring Talent, where you will hear directly from those at the top of their profession to learn from their experiences, insight, advice, and how to apply to your career regardless of your profession. I’m Michael Mitchell, owner of OC Executive Search, and for over 20 years I’ve been interviewing leaders in their field.

Join me as we gain a unique perspective from executives who will share their expertise. For your benefit first allowed me to thank our sponsors. Without them, this podcast would not be possible.[00:01:00] 

When I decided to launch Exploring Talent, I was looking for a true partner in a podcast production company. And Podfly, I found such a partner. Everyone was collaborative, responsive, professional, and extremely supportive. While treat me not as a billable client, but as a friend and peer, if you are considering launching a podcast, your first stop should be podfly.net.

Some of the guests who be I’m exploring talent are veterans that I have met because of my membership with VFIV. Post one. I’m honored to. I have served as the executive director of Post One here in Denver for three years, having started in 1899. We predate the VFW and proudly carry the banner of the first post of the Veterans of Foreign Wars, regardless of gender, sexual identity, politics, or age, veterans who are mental law recipients.

POWs, purple Heart recipients, flag officers, astronauts, entrepreneurs. Students, retirees, everyday Citizens who hail from all walks of life are members of the oldest and yet youngest veteran service [00:02:00] organization in the country. To learn more, donate and of course join the first and best go to VFW one.org.

I’m a Bill SIUs, CEO of Nexus Tech. I remember when Bill was the SVP of Operations at CoreSite and he said, this is years ago. I’m gonna be a CEO one day and after a successful run at Optiv. Here we are today. We’ll discuss matters ranging from declaring your goal and how to obtain it, assessing the situation and making it, making hard executive changes.

Why become a CEO and how to prepare for the moment and more. After graduating from the US Air Force Academy and serving for eight years, bill worked for companies such as Inflow, sung Guard, Healthgrade, CoreSite, Optiv, and now Nexus Tech. Welcome to the conversation, bill. I’m looking forward to getting into it.

Uh, please share an interesting fact based yourself. 

Bill Wosilius: Thanks, Michael. Appreciate you having me. I, uh, I gotta argue with you. I don’t, I don’t remember ever saying, uh, I want to be, or I’m gonna be a coma. CEO, I think, um. [00:03:00] I think you made that up. So I don’t know. 

Michael Mitchel: I stand by 

Bill Wosilius: my report. You stand by that. All right, fine.

Uh, something interesting about myself, well, I, I, uh, we were talking about this before we went live. I, uh, I set a goal about 10 years ago that I was gonna run, uh, an adventure race, at least one every year until I can’t, until they have to haul me off the, off the course. I’ve done Warrior Dashes and Rugged Maniacs and Spartans, and.

So far, I, I’ve stayed true to that. I did two, uh, last year I did a Spartan Super nine miler and, uh, rugged maniac last year. So one to two a year until, uh, I’m too old and beat up. Uh, and I can’t do ’em anymore. So we’ll see how that 

Michael Mitchel: goes. But see, I used to, uh, in mid, in the mid two thousands, I raced on a cycling team locally.

Yeah. So, you know, when people count their fourteeners. I count Mount Evans, even though I’d never climbed it. Yeah. Raced it a couple times. Yeah. That totally counts. No, I totally get it. That’s, that’s 

Bill Wosilius: the way [00:04:00] people in this adventure race thing are. They’re, they, they, the spartan they have this trifecta and if, if you complete the, the sprint, which is a 5K, and then the super, which is like a nine miler, and then the beast is like a half marathon, they give you a whole metal, but you only get a third of it until you complete all three of them.

Oh, 

Michael Mitchel: that’s kind of cool. Yeah, it’s, uh, see, I, I, I’ve seen the YouTubes and I know some people have done it. I’m like, I wanna do that. That looks really cool. And one of the penalties if you miss an obstacle is 30 burpees. 30 burpees. Yep. So, I tried it. I couldn’t get past 10. Yeah. So I think I have a long way to go if I’m gonna train for the spart.

Bill Wosilius: Yeah. You, you do anything to avoid 

Michael Mitchel: the bures? I, no, I didn’t boot. It’s good stuff. So, uh, please, uh, tell, tell us a little bit about Nexus Tech. 

Bill Wosilius: Well, um, we are a national provider of, uh, managed IT services. We’re now about, uh, 300 people strong, five major us, uh, markets, Denver, Phoenix, uh, Southern [00:05:00] California, Houston, and Boston.

Um, so we are effectively the, the IT department for our clients. In many cases we’re, we are their IT department, um, but we’re the product of. A series of six acquisitions over the last two years. So, uh, our private equity firm, ABRY Partners, bought us in 2017. And then in the two years following, uh, the acquisition and Nexus Stack, they bought six other companies, um, in those markets that I talked about.

And, uh, are doing a, a geographic roll up. So we’re a national provider now. Uh, we do everything from, you know, be a, a client’s help desk. To managing their public and private clouds. Pri providing cybersecurity services, consulting. We have three lines of business. Um, the managed services line of business, the recurring 24 by seven piece.

That’s, uh, that’s a pretty big chunk of it. We have a professional services consulting, [00:06:00] uh, line of business, and then obviously a product, uh, product, resale technology, resale business. So, um, you know, it’s grown, uh, exponentially over the last. Two years. Um, and, um, we’re looking to 

Michael Mitchel: do more of that. So for those who are listening who are not on a CEO career path, they’re in A-C-I-O-C-H-R, whatever that might path might be, what do you feel they can take away from this upcoming conversation?

Bill Wosilius: Well, uh, you know, I, I’m an accidental CEO, um, even though you, you, you seem to remember me saying I wanted to be one. Um, I would, I was on that glide slope, um, and in fact I was a CIO, uh, when I was at CoreSite. So, um, I am, uh, I’m, I wasn’t one of those people that, you know, said, this is what my end goal is and I’m, I’m gonna, you know, not gonna stop until I get there.

Um, but I think if your goal, you know, I would tell people that if, that they have a goal of being a CEO, if you have a [00:07:00] goal of being a CEO. Um, you know, it’s in the Air Force. We used to call this target fixation. You know, if you, if you have a, a target you’re chasing after and you stare at it long enough, then you end up crashing into things.

So, um, my advice would be, you know, don’t fixate on it. Right? If it’s gonna happen, it’s gonna happen. Timing’s, you know, a big piece of it. Um, you know, I think. If you, well, I’m sure we’ll touch on this, but if you do a good job in the role you’re in, somebody once told me the best piece of advice I ever got, which was the best job you ever had, is the one you have right now.

Right. You execute, you, you do a good job, uh, you have a good track record of success, and, and you build a team of people that you work with. Over the years, those are the people that call you in the future that say, you know, Hey, I’ve got a CXO role, whatever that is, and I think you’d be great for it. So, um, you know, I think preparing to be a CEO is, is a little bit, [00:08:00] um, you know, presumptuous that it’s 

Michael Mitchel: actually gonna happen.

How’d you come to CEO of Nexus Tech? What, what led us led you to this, this moment in your career? 

Bill Wosilius: Well, uh, about, about a year ago now, um, I, I had a conversation with, uh, a former peer of mine that is now a partner at, uh, our private equity firm that owns Nexus Tech, uh, called Abry Partners. And I had actually done some work for, for Abry about 10 years ago as a, as a contractor.

Helping them with another portfolio company that they, um, that they had bought. And it was very similar to Nexus Tech in that it was a, a rollup of acquired companies, regional managed service providers. It was a little bit more data center centric than this one is. But, um, I had helped a e um, as a contractor with the integration and sort of the strategy of, of how you take.

Small disparate businesses and standardize on systems and process and, you know, [00:09:00] people and those sorts of things. And, and I think that stuck in their mind, um, because about a year ago they, they called me with the opportunity to come in here and, and be the CEO at, uh, at Nexus Tech. And, um, they knew that my experience with.

Not only in the managed services, managed IT services space, but my experience with integrating companies, um, and helping them, you know, they, I was a known quantity to them. Had 

Michael Mitchel: you stayed in touch with ’em Yeah. Through that period, or was it out of the blue? 

Bill Wosilius: No, I had stayed in touch. Um, you know, I’d gotten several calls over the years with other opportunities that just didn’t, they weren’t right for me personally.

Uh, I had young kids at the time and I couldn’t pick up and move to another city. Um, so I had somewhat limited myself, you know, in that way to stay, you know, here in the Denver market. But, um, yeah, I, I had 

Michael Mitchel: kept in touch with him over the years. So what do you feel, looking back on your, your last 10 years of your [00:10:00] career has led you to prepare you for the moment of being the CEO?

Everything. 

Bill Wosilius: I, I go back to, um, the first job I had in corporate America after I got outta the military in the late nineties. You know, I, I, I tell this story a lot. This was Inflow. Um, first managed services, you know, data center business that I was ever involved in. And, um, I tell this joke a lot. I thought at the time I thought a router took the edge off of a piece of wood, which it did.

Um, but it wasn’t the kind that we dealt with. Yeah. And, uh. So I was, I’m an accidental IT guy as well because I came out of the, uh, I came out of the Air Force where I was a, an F 15 and F 22 maintenance officer. Right? So I, we didn’t, this was in a timeframe when, um, you know, the internet just barely, you know, existed.

I remember on my first deployment back in the mid nineties, [00:11:00] uh, in support of, uh, the Bosnia. Conflict. If you remember that back in the day, you know, we had, uh, we had one computer in a hardened aircraft shelter, and, uh, we were allowed one email a week back home, and, uh, you were time limited and you sat down, you wrote your email and you were out.

It was another week before you got to do that again. That was how you communicated with your family. So I, you know, the, the technology, the it piece, it was obviously very high tech with. Fighter airplanes, but, uh, just different. 

Michael Mitchel: See, I was in the navy late, mid, mid, mid to late eighties to early nineties. So my email didn’t have the e Right.

It had snail. Right. So, so what would you say is, was Oh, 

Bill Wosilius: finishing the, yeah, so finishing that story, how did, how did it happen? Right. So I got outta the military in the, in the late nineties. Um, went to work for, uh, a managed service provider. Um. Called Inflow, [00:12:00] ended up selling, selling that business in the mid nineties to SunGard Availability Services.

Um, but I had a number of, of experiences in those two companies that were all, you know, they all helped me today. In fact, um, when we got ready to, uh, sell Inflow to SunGard, we went and bought, uh, a company outta Charlotte, North Carolina. It was a, an application management company, so they did. You know, exchange management, crazy, crazy, you know, advanced IT services like managing exchange.

Um, you know, they did some or Oracle DBA stuff and things like that. And we bought that company. It was the first time that we had actually done a successful acquisition in an integration. And I got, you know, I got asked to, to go lead the integration. I looked at, at my CEO and COO and I said, I don’t know anything about that.

I don’t even have a clue. And, uh, one of our board members handed me a book, uh, titled Five Frogs on a Log. [00:13:00] It was written by, uh, a bunch of XPWC guys on kind of, it was kind of a, a handbook on, you know, the key things that you need to do to effectively integrate 

Michael Mitchel: five frogs on a log, 

Bill Wosilius: five frogs on a log.

Okay? Never heard of that. And, um, and I used that as my Bible. Um, you know, and I spent, uh, Monday to Friday for about, I don’t know, two, three months. Living out of a suitcase in Charlotte, North Carolina, integrating that business into inflow, that ultimately ended up kind of filling out our, our service offerings to the point where we were in a, an attractive acquisition target.

And we sold, you know, a couple years later to SunGard. 

Michael Mitchel: So you, you’ve got some m and a experience. 

Bill Wosilius: Yep. That was the first one. Um, and then I got to use it all over again. Optiv. Uh, at Optiv, right? Yeah, Optiv. Um, you know, I spent. The better part of six years at Optiv before taking over the C as a CEO of Nexus Tech.

Um, Optiv, a lot of people [00:14:00] don’t know, uh, was formed as a, you know, as the product of a, of a merger. Um, Blackstone bought the company I was working for at the time, it was a Denver based cybersecurity firm called Avant, uh, in 2014, and then bought our, our biggest competitor. It was a company called Fishnet Security.

In, uh, in 2015. And that wa at the time was the largest cybersecurity, uh, private equity deal in history. So both companies were about a thousand employees, about, um, just shy of a billion dollars worth of top line revenue and, and put ’em together. And it was like putting the Hatfield and the 

Michael Mitchel: McCoys together, those kind of claims, the largest deal ever is get those shelf life of that claim’s getting, I don’t if it’s true.

Yeah. I don’t know if it’s true anymore, but at the time it 

Bill Wosilius: was. And, um, that one was challenging, not just on the scale, the size and scale, but, uh, these two companies hated each other. I mean, they literally were Hatfields and the McCoys, it was [00:15:00] Broncos and Chiefs. And, um, and next thing you know, we, we were competing with each other on deal, on, on virtually every deal.

And next thing you know, we’re, we’re part of the same company. Arm in arm trying to, to create a bigger business. So, you know, I, I led the, the integration of our services organization, uh, in, in 2015. And that one had its its own challenges. You know, I, I had one integration under my belt, you know, arguably on a much smart, smaller scale.

Um, but uh, that one was, was very heavy systems integration. Um, very, very heavy cultural and organizational design. And, um, you know, because it was Hatfield’s and McCoy’s, uh, in the early stages, you had, you know, big challenges with people. You know, people not wanting to work for such and such of a person because they came from.[00:16:00] 

You know, the, the, the other side of the, the tracks. So, so you, you guys, 

Michael Mitchel: so yeah, it was an art. How did you get them to become one team players? It wasn’t easy. 

Bill Wosilius: Um, you know, a lot of, we, we had a lot of churn. Right. And that was sort of, I, I wouldn’t call it unexpected, but, right. Um, you had a lot of employees that, that just said, you know what, I don’t wanna work with those people because they’re bad.

And they came from, you know, they wore a different colored t-shirt than we do. And uh, and one of the advantages I had is I had just joined Avant before all this went down. Yeah. And so I didn’t really have a t-shirt, A tribe. Yeah. I didn’t come from one of the tribes. Um, you know, and I think that probably helped a little bit, but, 

Michael Mitchel: um, but still that’s, on one hand it seems like, okay, that seems really silly.

But on the other hand, that’s how someone feels. Figure that out early and, and, and go self-select out. That’s right. So you can foc so the business can move forward. Yeah. 

Bill Wosilius: Yeah. I think the, the people that, uh, that self-selected out of that [00:17:00] liked, you know, and this is completely okay, right? Some people don’t want to be part of something of that size.

They like smaller, they like more intimate or, or whatever. Um, and it was clear, Blackstone’s mission was to create the largest cybersecurity services firm in, in the world at the time it was North America. And, uh, and some of those folks, you know, decided they didn’t wanna be a part of that. They wanted to go do something else, and that’s okay.

Michael Mitchel: I remember, uh, a few years ago, I was, um, I was doing searches for this one client. We were targeting folks from like, say, like EDS. This is the pre HP merger. Mm-hmm. So I’m dating myself and people would leave and, you know, they’d go to hp. Then literally six months later, you know, they got merged or they went from H HP, DEDS, and then HP bought it.

Now they’re back and they’re like, ah, crikey. You know, it’s like I get a phone call. Yeah. I’m back where I didn’t want to be. Get me outta here. Yep. 

Bill Wosilius: That happened. There were a number of stories like that where people left and thought they were leaving, whichever company that that they came from, and now they’re back part of the family again.

It’s [00:18:00] funny how, how often that happens, but I wonder if they 

Michael Mitchel: feel like they have a target on their back. ’cause they’re like, oh, you’re back and you didn’t wanna be here to begin with. That’s right. Yeah. They think it’s all 

Bill Wosilius: about them. Yeah. And uh, I, you know, I think that was a, that was a fun time. We, we pulled that one off successfully, I think because.

Um, when we did the integration between the two companies, I had a peer, uh, from fishnet that was kind of co-managing the integration with me. Mm-hmm. You know, so it wasn’t like we bought them or they bought us it, you know, some people got hung up on that. It was a, it was a merger of families and, um, you know, that guy Charles Horton, I still keep in touch with, you know, we’re good friends.

We met, you know, through that, uh, through that exercise. And, um, you know, he and I just worked really closely together on, you know, what things fishnet did really well and what things avant did really well. And we’re gonna, we’re gonna select the best of breed, whether it was a process or a, a system or, or whatever the case may be.

And, [00:19:00] and, um, you know, we got the, the leadership team involved, right? It was, it was an integration team. So, you know, we had workstream leaders that managed project management. You know, each of the consulting practices and, you know, I, I think it went pretty well. You know, obviously it wasn’t for everybody, right?

And we lost, uh, we lost some people, but that’s to be expected when you do something like that. So, 

Michael Mitchel: so far you described a lot of executive, uh, experience some m and a experience. How about the back office side? Yeah, I’m not, yeah. How would you, did you have that? Did you not have that? If you didn’t, how were you?

I, I didn’t 

Bill Wosilius: ever have direct responsibility for those things, whether it’s, uh, human resources, talent acquisition, accounting, and finance. But I was always involved in the periphery, so as. As a business unit owner, a line of business owner at Optiv. I had a controller, for example, that was assigned to me.

Even though I didn’t own that responsibility, they were aligned [00:20:00] to, to my line of business at Optiv. Um, so I got lots of experience in, um, you know, o owning the p and l owning, you know, the, the financial statements working with fp and a folks. Um, same thing on the HR side. I had an HR business partner assigned to my line of business, didn’t directly, uh, own them from an organizational perspective, but worked very closely with ’em.

So I got insight into some of those back office functions, um, you know, through that experience. But I don’t think it was that, it’s that big of a, a big of a shift, right? If you have exposure to that, when, when you do finally own the, the responsibility of all those back office functions. To me, and this is all part of my leadership philosophy, and I know you, we will get to that.

It’s you, you have to hire, uh, people that you know are competent. You know, there’s, uh, um, there’s a few acronyms that I’ll, I’ll bring up a little bit later that I use to kind of guide, [00:21:00] um, my philosophy on this. But you, you hire strong leaders that are competent in their functions, whether it’s, you know, A CFO or A-C-H-R-O.

Um, you don’t have to be the, the expert, right? That’s why you hire them. Um, but hire people that are competent that you know, and you trust and, and turn ’em loose, right? Um, you know, the, the thing that a leader of. Functions like that really hates is a, is a CEO that is a micromanager that thinks he’s, he’s the best at sales and he’s the best at I know it all.

I know. You know those guys. 

Michael Mitchel: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, larger companies like say, um, uh, Proctor and Gamble. Right. Or, or Cisco or ge. They would have, you know, executive fast track programs that move people around to different business units, get experience. Larger companies can afford to do that for a lot of different reasons.

Smaller companies most can’t. And I think you hit on something where you hire the right people. That’s it. Yeah. Yep. Um, so you’re on board. Yep. What’s your first 60, [00:22:00] 120 days like? Here at Nexus Tech. Yeah. I mean, you’re a newly minted c um, uh, CEO Kind of what was it like, ’cause I know you, you, you made some hard calls and we’re gonna kind of talk about the morale during those changes, but Yeah.

You know, kind of how’d you come in and assess. Was it one, was it that kind of what you expecting when you came on? Because I think it rarely is, 

Bill Wosilius: well, let me, lemme start with the first 60 days, right? So I had a, um, I had a methodology that I had used in other, you know, entering into other jobs, whether they were CEO jobs or not, it didn’t really matter.

It’s, you know, general philosophy of, you know, take 30 days and do nothing but talk to people and listen. You know, try your best not to make any. Decisions, major decisions in your first 30 days, right? Just go out, talk to people, um, get their take on what’s working, what’s not. And I, and I have a process that I go through and in any job that I’ve taken, uh, over the last 20 years even, you know, people that I worked with back at Health Grades will tell you I did the same thing [00:23:00] back then, uh, back in the late two thousands, is that, you know, I’ll sit down and I will talk with as many human beings as I can, and I ask ’em four questions.

What’s working, what’s not working? If you were me and you were gonna start doing one thing, what would it be? And if I was gonna stop doing one thing, what would it be? Those four. Those four questions. And I filled up in my first 30 days a book about this size here, you know, about an inch thick, uh, uh, little journal with all of those conversations.

And then I came back to the company and said, here’s what I’ve learned in my first 30 days. And here’s kind of the common themes that I heard from people and sort of use that as a prioritization engine of, you know, the things that, that we want to go tackle. 

Michael Mitchel: How did you filter out from what you, the feedback you were hearing from employees, from what you felt was sincere feedback versus what you can tell?

I mean, that’s 

Bill Wosilius: a gut thing. 

Michael Mitchel: Yeah. 

Bill Wosilius: You can tell right people, people [00:24:00] that, uh, when you ask the question, you know. If you were gonna change one thing, what would it be? And their answer is, I want, um, you know, Coke instead of Pepsi. Yeah. Coke instead of Pepsi in the break room. You, you know, you know that, that, you know, you know where that’s coming from, but it’s, it’s pretty easy to tell.

You’ll get the same answers over and over again. Um, and people are, are re you know, people that are working in the business are sharp. They understand, you know, what the, where the landmines are and what needs to be fixed. And most of them, if they’re mature enough, they’ll tell you what, what needs to to happen like that.

The worst thing you can do as an executive is assume that you’re the smartest person in the room, that you have all the answers and everybody else that works there, a bunch of knuckleheads like that. That is the thing that will sink your boat faster than anything. Is assuming you’re the smartest person in the room.

I, I’ve always tried to assume that, you know, there’s, there is something, even though I’ve been [00:25:00] in the managed services industry, you know, for 20 years and, and I’ve done multiple Integra, there’s always something that I can learn and walking into to every conversation with, with people that you meet with, that attitude is, is solid.

Michael Mitchel: So I want to continue to down that path. ’cause I’m over your shoulder. There’s a whiteboard. Yep. I see some initials. HHAC. Yep. GAS. Yep. Na, I’m assuming it’s not, uh, gas from North America. So, so what, what is that for? 

Bill Wosilius: It’s not, it’s not, it’s, uh, those three acronyms ended up on my board at, you know, I don’t remember exactly.

It was probably day one or day two on the job. And, um, and I, I was sort of. You know, playing the, the Whack-a-mole game that you play in your first call it week of, of being in a, in a CXO job. And, and I wanted to benchmark myself. I don’t know if you remember the, the movie Draft Day, Kevin Costner. Mm-hmm.[00:26:00] 

And if you’ve seen that movie at the beginning of draft day, he takes a little yellow sticky and he writes a note to himself, folds it up and sticks it in his pocket. And then later on in the day, 12 hours later, when he goes to make the draft pick, he pulls it out and he uses it as a reminder of, you know, what he set out to do at the beginning of the day so that he could, he could remind himself so he didn’t lose his base, his, his foundation.

So I wrote those three acronyms, those on, on the board. HAC stands for Have a clue. So I want people as part of this organization that, that are competent in their jobs. They have a clue, they understand how to do, uh, do their job. Now, for each job, you know, you gotta define what have a clue means, but it’s different, uh, for each role.

Um, gas, GAS stands for gives a shit. And, uh, I want people that want to be here. None of 

Michael Mitchel: this not my job. 

Bill Wosilius: I don’t, I don’t want people that are mailing it in. You know, I want people that, [00:27:00] that actually are passionate about being here. Um, and, uh, NA stands for No Assholes. And I use those three acronyms. I actually stole those from, uh, a CEO that I went to list.

I wish I could remember his name. I, I believe it was RingCentral, CEO, put on a, a talk at lunch, you know, maybe 10, 12, 15 years ago. And he said that’s, that’s what. That’s kind of the, the overarching, um, you know, reminder that he, that he has that, uh, guides him in how he, how he decides, you know, who he wants as part of his team.

And I thought it was brilliant. And so I hijacked it and I’ve used it ever since. 

Michael Mitchel: You know, we actually, uh, that’s, that last one was my guiding principle when it comes to clients. Yeah. I don’t work with assholes. No. I can 

Bill Wosilius: always say no to it. No, there’s plenty of people out there that are, that are sharp people, that are passionate people.

And they’re not jerks. And those are the people that, that I want part, part of my organization. 

Michael Mitchel: Yeah, because with within what, 90, 120 [00:28:00] days, you made some significant chess moves, did in to executives, did you brought in a new CFOA new COO, a new VP of professional services and a VP of integration. Just just to a few.

That’s right. And And you got ’em all through your personal network, which is phenomenal. That’s right. But when you’re making those moves. So early in your tenure, that’s, that’s a huge Yeah. Impact on the company morale. How did you manage that while making those those plays? Yeah. It wasn’t, 

Bill Wosilius: it wasn’t easy.

Um, clearly, you know, when, anytime there’s executive turnover, it sends a, a ripple effect or a shockwave through the, through the organization and, you know. People have been through that before. I’ve been through it before on the receiving end. Right. So I I, I’ve been in the audience watching that happen before.

Um, but anytime that happens, it, it puts people on edge, right? They, you know, they, they wonder what’s going on. They make up stories about what it means and, [00:29:00] and, um, and all of that. And, and I would just say how I managed through that was those three acronyms. 

Michael Mitchel: Yeah. 

Bill Wosilius: Hired people that were competent in their jobs.

They were passionate about what they did and they weren’t a jerk. And when, when those people come in, whether it was a new COO, you know, Scott Rays our, is our COO here, and people spend five minutes with the guy, they realize that he epitomizes those, those three acronyms, right? He’s a good guy, he’s competent, he knows what he’s doing, and he’s not a jerk, right?

Um, Chris Wheeler, our CFO, same, same kind of mindset, right? So when you hire people like that. When people in the organization see that and they get over the initial shock and they realize that, that these people are, you know, competent, passionate, and not jerks. 

Michael Mitchel: Mm-hmm. 

Bill Wosilius: Um, you know, they go, okay, I understand it.

That makes sense to me and I agree with it. And, and they eventually, they get on [00:30:00] board, right? And they, well, one of two things happens. They either get on board or they, or they don’t. Um, but I think the people that you know are within the organization that are keep people that you want to keep, and people that are really, really strong, they see, they see that.

And, um, and it just makes it easier, right? They, if, if you hire somebody that it isn’t competent or you know, is mailing it in every day or as a jerk, then, then people, you know, lose, uh, respect and, and you, you don’t get them to, to jump on the bus. Uh, you hire good people that, that are competent and passionate and not jerks, and people wanna follow them.

So, so beyond the 

Michael Mitchel: acronyms, how would you describe your management style? 

Bill Wosilius: Well, it was, yeah, it’s a great question. I have been both, um, you know, it sounds weird. Praised as well as criticized for my management style. My, my management style is very transparent. Um, you, you’re never [00:31:00] gonna have to guess. What I’m thinking or, or how I’m feeling fairly, um, transparent with, with everybody.

Um, and some people dig that and some people don’t. But, uh, the transparency piece, I read a, I read an article the other day in, in a CEO, um, mailing list that I, that I subscribed to, and it was an article about transparency and trust as a CEO. Like it’s the most important thing that you have. And the example that they gave was sort of polar examples.

It was Boeing after the, the, uh, 7 37 max crash and all of that stuff that went on be after, after those. There’s a HBR mishaps 

Michael Mitchel: HBR article written, waiting to be written on what not to do. Yes. Yeah. So 

Bill Wosilius: that was the what not to do. And then they gave the Starbucks example, George Schultz and you know, sort of his speech to the company when they were teetering on the edge of solvency.

And, uh, and he made the very gutsy [00:32:00] call to have a very transparent conversation with all the employees in the business and, and, and how the power of that, you know, built trust amongst the employees and leaders in the company. And next thing you know, you know, there’s a Starbucks on every corner, right?

And so it was, it was sort of a, a validation, if you will, of kind of the way I I operate, which is, I’m gonna be very transparent. I’m gonna tell you when things are good. I’m gonna tell you when things are bad. And, um, you know, that so far has, has worked with, you know, the companies that I’ve been involved in because people understand that, that they are not being lied to.

They’re being involved in the, in the process and. And, uh, in my experience, generally those folks will run through a brick wall for you. So that’s why I do it that way. I don’t know how to do it any other way. It’s just natural. So. 

Michael Mitchel: So if there’s a VP out there listening who wants to be A-A-C-E-O or a CXO of some sort, what advice would you give to him or [00:33:00] her?

Bill Wosilius: Yeah, I mentioned it earlier. Quit focusing on being a CXO, right? If it’s gonna happen, it’s gonna happen because you’ve done great work for great people that, that pull you. Um. There’s a, there’s a book that I use and have used now for 20 plus years called Top Grading. Yep. You know it. 

Michael Mitchel: Yep. Oh yeah. It’s, you came from this world’s.

Yep, yep. You know this world, like I got the third edition. 

Bill Wosilius: Yeah. One of the, one of the premises in, in top grading is A players have always been A players. Yeah. Right. And uh, they A players, you know. Have always been at the top of their class or their, their team captain or the president of the debate club or whatever it is, they, they know what order of merit they graduated from high school or college and, you know, they know all those things because they have been an A player their entire lives.

One, one of the traits that A players have is they get pulled into new roles by people that they have worked with in the past because they’ve done a [00:34:00] great job in those roles. So. As a hiring manager, sometimes you’ll see a resume of somebody that’s been a year or two years in a job and then they move and then another year and two years.

And as a, as a hiring manager, most hiring managers view that as what a job hopper. Yep. Right. Yeah. And they, and they stay away from people like that. Well, I, I subscribe to the, to the top grading approach, which tells me I need to find out why they made those moves. And there’s techniques in, in top grading that teach you how to do that.

But, um, you can pretty quickly determine whether their reason for leaving was, um, you know, they’re an A player and they got pulled. And, uh, so my, my point in that was, you know, if you do a good job, if you’re a VP and you want to be a CEO, you know, someday, or a, you know, COO or whatever your end goal is, if you’re focused on that as your goal.

Y you’re missing the mark 

Michael Mitchel: and, you know, [00:35:00] top Grain book. That was one of the first business books I bought when I, when I hung on my own shingle to do search. Yeah. And my first client was Siemens and, and they had just bought another company and they wanted to compete with EDS, HP and the bunch of other, the big firms, Unisys, but their current sales force wasn’t that level.

So together we worked on Redefine the Profile. That was the one of the first things I used for, as a tool to help my client get there. And I’ve kept that book and I was going back and I’m rereading some of my, the stuff I hadn’t read in a while. And so, yeah, the third edition came out a couple years ago.

I just reordered and I just arrived this week and I just started reading it, uh, literally last night. So you mentioned it. Yeah. It was kind of like, okay, well, you know, it’s one of those things where all, all rows lead to Rome. Yeah. So, uh, that ones, it’s still as relevant today as it was when it first came out.

Bill Wosilius: It is. And, and, uh, the, the point of that is, um, if you’re an aspiring CXO, as a, you know, whether you’re at the director level [00:36:00] or the, or the VP level, I, I’ve found that titles don’t matter. 

Michael Mitchel: Yeah. 

Bill Wosilius: You know, call me Chief Cook and bottle washer, I don’t care. Right. At the end of the day, I just want to do meaningful work and I want to have a, a seat at the table.

Um, so that would be my advice is don’t focus on. On being the C whatever, you know, CXO, focus on doing the best job you can and make your boss’s job easier, such that at, at some point in the future, which you don’t get to control, um, you know, they reach out and they go, Hey, I gotta, I have an opportunity for you that I think you’d be great at.

And those things have happened. They’ve happened to me over the course of my career. They’ve happened to, uh, a lot of the folks that I, that I’ve worked with and. You know, my daughter is so aside, just graduated from college and, uh, she’s ready to start working. So 

Michael Mitchel: I, I reject that premise because you and I are, are all within a couple years of each other.

Yeah. And I cannot accept that I have friends that Yeah. That are the same age that the kids are graduating from college. I don’t, I, I, I [00:37:00] reject that promise. I, 

Bill Wosilius: I’ll take that as a compliment. Um, but she’s, uh, you know, just starting to work on her resume and. Or LinkedIn page and, and go into the, you know, the adult job market.

And, and uh, you know, I saw something the other day that a hiring manager on average spends six seconds looking at a resume. 

Michael Mitchel: I think that’s high. 

Bill Wosilius: That may be, but the point is, right, how do you, how do you end up in roles, whether it’s a director role and you’re, you know, an associate or a, a VP role when you’re a director?

Um. You know, it’s, you do a great job. The best job you ever had is the one you have right now. 

Michael Mitchel: Yep. I think the reason why I think that’s six seconds is old. ’cause I think that was, I’ve heard that number for a while. And so I gotta believe that with a, with all the different channels and the constant bargaining of information from all sources in, in your, in any given moment of your day.

Yep. I think people have just glanced at like maybe three to four seconds looking for a couple of specific keywords of it. Sure. And they, they’re not looking for the experience. They’re looking for keywords especially, and if you’re in someone’s [00:38:00] sales, which I always tell people. What they’re, they’re looking for dollar signs, percentage numbers, and if it’s a CFO or ACL O, they’re probably looking for the same kind of thing.

Bill Wosilius: Sure. Well, they’re looking 

Michael Mitchel: for 

Bill Wosilius: impact, right? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. The worst thing somebody can do on their resume is say, I was responsible for herding cats and, you know, plugging holes. You know, like we know that, right? What we want to see is what did you do and what was the impact? But at the end of the day, that’s what somebody wrote on there.

On their resume. What I really value is somebody that I know and I’ve worked with before and I trust and respect, says Joe or Suzy or Bob is, is a fantastic whatever, right? Yep. And you should really consider them for, you know, their next layer up. That’s, that’s my advice. You know, if you’re, if you get target fixation on a CXO role, um, it probably will evade you, your, your entire career.

Michael Mitchel: So we’ve hit on it, but, uh, is there anything else you wanna add? Like what do you look for when you’re hiring an executive? Well, um, obviously maybe X [00:39:00] factor personality wise, it’s 

Bill Wosilius: trust. I’m gonna, I’m gonna use a, uh, uh, I’m trying to think of things that your listeners would Yeah. Would find valuable. Um, and I’ll get, I’m gonna take the long way around on this one.

Okay. If I can a little bit, Michael. Um, uh, one of my former CFOs that I worked for about 20 years, or worked with 20 plus years ago, taught me, uh, an acronym to use. I’m full of acronyms, which is silly, but, um, taught me an acronym to use while I was evaluating, uh, opportunities that come up. And that acronym is forms, F-O-R-M-S.

F being financial, right? Pay, stock, bonus, whatever those things are. O is organization. What do they do? Do they make shoelaces? Are they an IT service provider? Do they make coffee? Whatever it is, R is role and responsibility. So, do I have a seat at the table, at the executive table? Am I one layer removed?

You know, am I in charge of anything or I’m, am I an [00:40:00] individual contributor? M is the management style of the person you’re gonna end up working for. And s is strategy. So what’s the strategy of the business? Is it growth, business acquisition strategy? Is there an exit? You know, exit? All those sorts of things.

And so that, that kind of guides your, your decisions as you go through your career. Um, but what I’ve found is over the last 20 years that relative importance of each of those letters has changed. Yeah. You know, early in your career you’re chasing the f Right? Chasing the almighty dollar. I wanna make more money.

Uh, at some point in your career you go chasing the r, which is the, the responsibility or the role, the title. Right. I had one of those that blew up in my face, uh, a long time ago. Um, but now. It’s so important to me. It’s probably more important than anything else is the, is the, um, the management style.

Right. Um, you know, it goes back to the three acronyms on the board. I don’t wanna work for a [00:41:00] jerk and, uh, and I won’t. And if their management 

Michael Mitchel: style is jerk, then damn hard time attracting doesn’t talent. It doesn’t matter how much 

Bill Wosilius: you pay me. I’m not gonna, I’m not gonna do that. Well, 

Michael Mitchel: because, you know, statistically money is like, reason number six, why people make a change.

Sure. Totally. Number two is the reason they give number one, two is advancement and who they’re working for. Yeah. 

Bill Wosilius: Yeah. They’re passionate about, if they are excited about what they do, like they feel like they’re having an impact and they like their boss. It makes up for a lot of other things. And not, doesn’t mean you can not pay your people, but it does mean that, you know, the, the, the things that cause them to look for other opportunities aren’t as important.

Yep. Right. Every time I, I made a shift. Um, in my career or made a decision to move on, it was because of m it was because the management style was making the, the role so unbearable that it made me listen to other opportunities I may have left because, you know, there were other [00:42:00] factors in play. Like, you know, we, we all need to work for an income, right?

We can’t do it for free. But, um, you know, those things have shifted so. The, the, the point of that was, uh, I forget where we were headed, what question you would ask, but 

Michael Mitchel: you, you look for an executive, what do I look 

Bill Wosilius: for in an executive? So when, when I went out and did my searches, it ultimately amounted to trust.

So as a version of m right, they have to trust me. I have to trust them. Um, there is enormous amounts of comfort and ease when you know that your executives, uh, that you don’t, you don’t need, you. If you don’t even need to really finish the sentence, ’cause they, they already know what you mean. Or, um, you know, I use this term commander’s intent from the military.

You remember the, the, the term, right. The commander would, would give intent. He wouldn’t tell you how to do it, but he’d tell you what, what you wanted, what he wanted done. Um, you know, so a good executive is [00:43:00] somebody that A, I know can get the job done, but b and more importantly, I can trust them and I can say, this is the outcome that we’re trying to get.

I don’t care how you do it empowers them. It empowers them. And some people, you know, love that. And some people hate it. Some people wanna be told exactly how to do it. Uh, a good friend of mine Academy, air Force Academy classmate, um, is a, an Air Force, retired Air Force special operator. Um, and his management style was, was a little different.

You know, if it was, I need you to go clear this, you know, this, this forest, he would say, go clear the forest. Remove all branches to eight feet, three inches high and pile all of the branches 16 feet over there. Like, that’s, that’s his leadership style is is he a financial guy? No, he’s not okay’s who I 

Michael Mitchel: thought it was.

Bill Wosilius: No. But, but that leadership style is important in certain environments. Yeah. Um, others like, Hey, we need to create a landing zone that we can land a, a, you know. [00:44:00] A Black Hawk helicopter in, well, in six hours, go figure it out. Yeah. And then they know exactly how big the rotor is and how high, and they, they figure all that stuff out.

Like I, that’s my, that’s more how I operate. Okay. And, um, and I’ve had leaders before tell me they, they loved it. And I’ve had people tell me they hated it. They made ’em uncomfortable and they wanted me to tell ’em how high to cut the branches. So, you know, it’s situational leadership a little bit that you gotta know.

When to use which of those styles. Um, you know, I know which one I prefer to use, which is, we’re gonna put a helicopter in there. Go get it done. I’d prefer to do that, but I also know that there are times where, you know, you have to, you have to be a little bit more prescriptive. 

Michael Mitchel: And, and when you, when I talk to, to executives, like, what’s your management style?

No one’s ever said, I’m a micromanager. People love me. Yeah, 

Bill Wosilius: exactly. No, I, I, uh, I, I don’t know that. Uh, I can’t do that for very long. Yeah, I’ll say that. 

Michael Mitchel: So we’re gonna kind of start the winding this [00:45:00] up. Um, it’s been a great conversation. We could, you’re not gonna do this like Joe Rogan. We’re not gonna go for two 

Bill Wosilius: hours.

Fine. No. And, 

Michael Mitchel: and, and we’re gonna leave the, uh, the, the Colorado flower, uh, off the table as well. Yeah, let’s do that. So what, um, any other final thoughts or comments or advice you’d like, you know, you wanna share with, with, with up and coming 

Bill Wosilius: Yeah. Executives. Uh, gosh, like the biggest thing, and I keep coming back to it, is the best job you ever had is the one you have right now.

And every job that you have in your career prepares you for that moment. Mm-hmm. Right? It’s that moment. You may not know when it’s gonna, when it’s gonna arrive, uh, but you’re gonna have gained some experience whether the job was painful or, or not. Um, you know, every, everyone matters. I’m gonna come back and, and touch on a question you asked me earlier.

Yeah. What do I look for in executives? Mm-hmm. One of the things that I look for is, is failure. Yes. I want, I’m glad you, you said this, somebody who [00:46:00] has skinned their knees and they’ve fallen down and they’ve figured out what they did wrong and, and recovered from it. The last thing I want is somebody making their first mistake.

Michael Mitchel: Yep. 

Bill Wosilius: Um, so I, I look for, you know, failure’s not a bad thing. It’s just an opportunity to learn if, if 

Michael Mitchel: you said you never failed either A, you’re lying, or B, you’re not really trying. I’m trying Hard enough. Yeah. 

Bill Wosilius: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So I, you know, that’s, that’s it. Don’t be afraid to fail, I guess would, would be a, another piece of advice.

Take chances, um, you know, experiment. If you’re in an environment that doesn’t allow you to, to do that, then ask yourself the question whether you should even be there. 

Michael Mitchel: Yeah. 

Bill Wosilius: Um, but as a leader, if you can create an environment where people can. I can try things and fail. You know, I’ve used a term with, with my leadership team here at Nexus Tech, um, you know, create, uh, make it.

If you’re gonna make a mistake, make a mistake of commission, not omission. Do something, make a mistake, rather than stand by and [00:47:00] watch and. And not do anything. Right. But I’d rather have that we can have a, you know, a discussion about it after the fact than, um, you know, somebody that’s afraid to, to make that call.

Michael Mitchel: So you talk about your best job is now. Mm-hmm. Um, and I like to ask everybody this, what’s the best, worst job you’ve ever had? And what’d you learn from? How did it influence your career? Career? Every, every job. You’ve never had a ter Some that I didn’t enjoy. It could be in high school. It could be high school, it could be pre, you know, your, something you did when you first got outta the service.

I mean, you’ve had a crappy job shucked 

Bill Wosilius: corn in high school when it was summer and I wasn’t playing sports. Uh, now I, I would say, um, I’ve had two jobs and I won’t get into the, which ones they were, where I worked for, um, micromanagers, you know, heavy handed. I wanted to control everything. I, this is why I said before, people have asked me how I made it through the academy and, and it, I just laugh.

I had to laugh because otherwise it was gonna [00:48:00] make me go outta my Gord. But, um, bosses that were, um, authoritarian, right? This is, you will do things this way. Didn’t want me to, you know, didn’t want me to do it my way or, or. Take chances or make mistakes. It was, you know, those were miserable. 

Michael Mitchel: So, so mine, and I ask every guest this question, but I’ve never, I’ve never said, heard that I heard, I, I, but I never, no one’s ever asked me where the origin of that question comes from.

My best, worst job was when I was going to college and I worked at Smith Barney and I, I cold called for a vp. Mm-hmm. And he was looking, you know, his minimum investment, this is the mid nineties was three 50 K. So you’re looking for some heavy hitters. Sure. The predecessor that I replaced. All she had to do was fill the room and she got paid 25 bucks a ahead.

So it was no one who had three 50,000. She was just fill in the room. Sure. And I said, well, I don’t want 25 bucks. You’re paying me hourly rate. I wanna spiff for every when we get together. Yeah. And for the first three days I did this job out cold, call these people, and I couldn’t wait to get off the phone.

Hi, my name is Mike Majka. [00:49:00] Thanks, Mike. Click yeah. And he let me do, it was great. He let me do this for three days and finally he’s like, if you don’t get over your fear of the phone, you’re done. Not just here, but in business. Yeah. And for me, I was like this. Oh shit moment. And then I realized it’s a phone.

No one can hurt you. Yeah. And who’s to say I’m not providing the value and, and to this day I’ll call, call anybody. Yeah, right. I know that 

Bill Wosilius: from experience about you. 

Michael Mitchel: Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And in fact, today, um, I was watching CNBC and he’s on it. Bill Smad Funny. He’s got his own practice now. I called him up maybe five years ago and I thanked him.

That’s great. And he couldn’t believe it. I was like, you are the best worship I’ve ever had because I’m where I’m at today because of you. Yeah. Yeah, I, 

Bill Wosilius: I keep thinking of, uh, and I’m dragging this on, I know, I know you want to boat. Give me the boat hook, but, uh, you asked me, uh, you’re music starting to play advice.

Yeah. This is like the Oscars where they’re like, get off the stage, dude. Um, another piece of advice for, for up and coming aspiring executives is find yourself a mentor. [00:50:00] Find yourself a professional mentor. Right? Seek somebody out that has the job that you think you want. And ask them, would you be willing to spend an hour a month with me, have lunch with me, and just coach me on how to be a better executive?

And whether that’s hiring an executive coach or, um, you know, going outside the organization and finding somebody. I did that 10 years ago. A guy named John Kelly, uh, who was the former CEO of McData. He’s the current CEO of, uh, Rascan here in Denver, uh, had long history back with Quest. Um, back before, uh, or US West before Quest, uh, to be honest, and, and that guy has just been incredibly valuable in getting me ready for.

For this day. Um, so, you know, find yourself a mentor and, and learn from ’em. Be a sponge. 

Michael Mitchel: Yep. Well, great. Well, look, I really appreciate your time. Um, it’s been a really interesting [00:51:00] conversation. It’s been awesome, man. It’s been fun. It’s been, it, it’s just really flowed. I, I’ve really enjoyed it. That’s cool. Um, I really appreciate it.

We usually, I ask any books to recommend, but you’ve already talked about. Oh man, I got a ton of them. Yeah, I got a ton of 

Bill Wosilius: them. We, uh, top 

Michael Mitchel: grading. 

Bill Wosilius: Top grading was one I love, uh, extreme ownership by Jocko Willink. Um, I love, uh, make Your Bed by Admiral McRaven. Um, you know, I’ve got a ton of them. In fact, we, we just created a, uh, we’re calling the Nexus Tech Leadership Academy here, where we’ve, we’ve taken 25 of our, um, our leaders throughout the organization and we’re putting through a 12 month leadership development program every month.

It’s a different topic. Last month we did, uh, financial acumen 1 0 1 oh, how to read financial statements. This month it’s hiring and recruiting. Guess what book we’re using to guide that top grading? Um, you know, we’ll hit on a mindset of an investor, you know, later on this year. We’ll set, we’ll, we’ll touch on, um, critical thinking and decision making.

[00:52:00] So we have a different topic every month, but every month there is a book that goes with that, with that program. So, um. Yeah, there’s a ton of them. I have a pile, as you can tell, right over there on my, yep. On my, uh, credenza here with, um, and a lot of them are about half, half red. ’cause I, I’m a little a DD sometimes.

And I start ’em and can’t get 

Michael Mitchel: finished before I start the next one. I go on, I go on reading Jags too. I, I’ll be a desert for a while, and so read like three books all at once. I really get that. Well, cool. Thanks for, uh, for coming our way. Yeah, no, I appreciate it. It, yeah, it’s been, it’s been a blast. Thanks so much.

You bet. All right. We’re done. We’re outta here. Cheers. Cheers. I’m not gonna tell you what you should take away from this interview for each person who is unique in their passions, career goals and experiences, but I do hope you learn something and enjoy the conversation. Please give us five stars, iTunes, and share your comments.

That’s the only way we can improve and ask the questions that you want to hear. I’d like to thank Jalon Crossland and an award-winning banjo and bluegrass artists. Jalan HA is from the Bighorn Mountain to [00:53:00] Wyoming, and he graciously provided his music for exploring talent. When I think of talent, Jalan always comes to mind First, please visit jalan crossland.com.

I’d like to thank Angie for all of her research during her 16 plus years at my firm, OC Executive Search, and for her work on this podcast. I always give credit where credit is due. Exploring talent’s name came from Angie. Thanks for my pod producer, Joseph or without this podcast would not be possible.

And of course, Corey, my pod engineer. Please follow us on LinkedIn under Exploring Talent. My LinkedIn is Michael Mitchell with one L and our Twitter handle is talent explored. Share our show and please drop me a note. Thanks for joining.