With over 24 years of experience in venture capital and private equity, Rand Lewis has seen what separates good leaders from great ones. In this episode of CXO Conversations, the Managing Partner and co-founder of Delta-v Capital—whose investments include Zayo, Cloud Sherpa, LogRhythm, Iterable, and Chegg—shares why he invests not just capital, but real relationships. Rand also offers candid advice to current and emerging CEOs, explains how he evaluates executive talent, and reflects on lessons learned from his early career at McKinsey and Centennial Ventures before launching Delta-v.
For the full 40 mins interview: https://ocns.co/the-hallmark-of-a-great-leader/
10 Min Clip Transcript
Rand Lewis: [00:00:00] One of our favorite sayings is Nothing’s impossible if you don’t have to do it yourself.
Michael Mitchel: Well kick it.
CXO conversations, talks with C-level executives on how they reach the C-suite, and what advice would they give to those who want to be one. Today, Rand Lewis, managing partner of EL Delta V. Capital joins us. Rand has over 24 years experience in investing in companies, both in venture capital and private equity arenas.
He co-founded Delta V in 2009 and has invested in some of the well-known brands within technology. Please see the show notes. Uh, for more on Rand’s bio, welcome to the conversation. Rand. Thank you so much for having me. I, I gotta tell you, I’ve been looking for this for a while. Um, we have a mutual friend who speaks very you, highly of you, and, and I felt like between talking to Todd and hearing and who’s a one of my first guests on the podcast, my launch in 2019 and kind of our pre-call and getting to know you, I feel like this can be a [00:01:00] really fun conversation.
Um, do me a favor, where does your passion for growth investing come from and, and why the technology focus?
Rand Lewis: Well, I love working with the entrepreneurs and management teams who are willing to take a risk, willing to try something innovative, see the positive in a market or an opportunity, and it’s infectious to be around them.
Um, I started my career in a very big, sort of almost monopolistic player in the telecom space, and, and the people I worked with there didn’t have passion. And, uh, I, I contrast that and love the passion of, of entrepreneurs and, and technologists just see things that the rest of us don’t see. They have the ability to see over a horizon and, and it’s infectious and exciting to be around.
Michael Mitchel: Prior to founding Delta V, you were with Centennial Ventures. Uh, any key takeaways that you applied when co-founding Delta V?
Rand Lewis: Yeah. The [00:02:00] partners who I worked for and eventually worked with at Centennial Ventures were all almost a generation older than me. They were very experienced individuals, and so I had the opportunity to, to learn from them.
And, and couple things that I learned that I, that I apply every day is, um, that nothing’s impossible if you don’t have to do it yourself. And so if you find great people. And you align ’em around a vision, um, it’s amazing what you can accomplish and that exists within Delta V and it certainly exists within the companies that we invest in.
Um, and, and the second piece of it is, is that, um, those relationships are just super rewarding and they become your friends and, and people that you respect and you learn from not just in business, but in, in other parts of your life.
Michael Mitchel: When considering investing in a company, what do you look for in its leadership?
Rand Lewis: Uh, one of our portfolio companies, you mean? [00:03:00] Yeah. Mm-hmm. So, so we look for people who have a track record of success and it can, we, we start looking very far back in their backgrounds. Um, you know, one of the guys that I’m working with today is someone who grew up in rural Romania, reared by his grandparents, came from nothing.
But if you look at his track record of success, it started early in school. And, and, and he exceeded all along the way. And so we look for a repeated track record of success all the way through their career. Even if at they’re relatively early in their career, have they outperformed, have they made a situation better?
Second thing we look for is, is specific expertise in the sector, in the industry that they’re going to, to pursue, right? Mm-hmm. So it, it’s hard to, to, um. Unlearn the lessons or to learn the lessons that you, you didn’t know, uh, about an [00:04:00] industry. And so we like to back people to do something in an industry that they know as opposed to someone who doesn’t know anything about the industry.
So those are probably the two most critical factors. The third piece is, can they bring a team with them? It’s a wonderful factor for us to look at what I call followership. So are there team members who are specifically willing to take a risk and follow? This individual and, and can you see them, follow them across different, um, past experiences?
Michael Mitchel: Is that, um, what, what, for you personally, where did that come from? Did you apply that approach when you were at Centennial or was that something new when you started? Yeah. The most
Rand Lewis: successful companies we saw at Centennial were companies led by teams who had worked together in a previous company and then came forward as a group, usually within the same industry.
To, to maybe make the next iteration of, of success in that industry. And having that core team [00:05:00] different and complimentary skill sets, they know one another. It, it just helps grease the skids in terms of getting something off the ground and getting it moving.
Michael Mitchel: Uh, I couldn’t agree more. Um, you know, over the 20 years I’ve been doing search, I’ve seen that as well.
When I talk to someone, I’m like, well, why did you, you know, you got a short stint here. Well, you know, Chris who brought me over then went on to this other role and I really wanted to work with him. And so you see that, and then next thing you know, they’re a C-level and then they’ve got folks that, that followed them.
It says a lot about them. Yeah, I think, absolutely. Yeah. How about when you’re looking at leadership, and we’re gonna come back, I wanna talk more about that, the followship thing. But, um, when you’re looking at, at a company to invest in for the, for the portfolio, when you look at the executive leadership. I mean, is there anything else?
I mean, you looking at their, at their personality, their character. The reason why I ask is Chris Younger, I dunno if you know Chris mm-hmm. Over at Class six. Okay. Um, partners, he has what’s called the dinner test. They have dinner with him. Right. And do you want to have dinner with him? Because he is like, it’s not so much the [00:06:00] qualifications and the actual company, it’s more about what that person is, what’s their values and their ethics.
Rand Lewis: Well, so absolutely. Values and ethics are. Table stinks for us. Right? And we, we seek that as we’re doing reference checks as we’re evaluating their background. But, but the, you know, the plane flight or the delayed flight test maybe is our example. So if you’re stuck in a gate, um, in Chicago waiting to, for thunderstorms to clear, to be able to fly back to Denver, how would you feel?
Would you be looking for an excuse to, to go take a call?
Michael Mitchel: Yeah.
Rand Lewis: Or would you enjoy. Spending time with that individual. Absolutely. I mean, life is way too short. You know, we work with these companies sometimes for 10 plus years, and so you want to find them interesting, find them engaging, have, have things that you share in common.
And yet diversity’s super important too, right? Who, who, if we invest in only people who look like me, well, [00:07:00] we’re gonna miss so many wonderful opportunities, right? And so, absolutely. The, the air, the delayed plane. Test is one that we care about. Yes.
Michael Mitchel: The followship. Do you, I don’t know if you track it statistically or or if it’s a gut feel, but when you look at folks you’ve hired who didn’t have the followship versus those who did, do you see a difference in their performance as an executive?
Rand Lewis: Yeah. Yes. I don’t have the statistics. What I can tell you is that we feel it’s a much higher likelihood when it’s a known. Relationship in a known hire and, and invariably when we work with someone, and we’ve done this, we’ve make mistakes, right? When you work with someone and you have that question in your mind, why did nobody follow this person?
Michael Mitchel: Mm-hmm.
Rand Lewis: We usually know pretty quick. Yeah. Unfortunately, like you’re in and you’re like, oh, I see. And now I see that their first impression is their best impression. Maybe [00:08:00] it’s is one way to sort of describe it. They don’t
Michael Mitchel: Yeah.
Rand Lewis: Wear so well over time, so. Yeah. In the cases where we’ve sort of blown through the yield sign, we, it usually comes back and, and hits us in the phase pretty quick.
Michael Mitchel: And so when we’re talking about followship, we’re not, I think we’re talking about two kinds of followship. We’re talking executives you’ve used at at one company and you brought ’em over to another company. But then also we’re talking about a followship of, you bring in this like a CEO and they have a team that follows them.
Correct? Correct. Yeah. And what is it about that person when they bring teams with them? From your perspective, that makes ’em good. Why do people wanna follow them? Do you have thoughts on that?
Rand Lewis: Well, it, it is very personal. You know, it depends very much on, um, on the individual. But if you take Dan Caruso, who was one of the most successful entrepreneurs here in, in Colorado, he had a team that he took with him from level three to [00:09:00] ICG.
Michael Mitchel: Mm-hmm.
Rand Lewis: And then the vast majority of that team. Followed him to Zaya and those were huge successes.
Michael Mitchel: Yeah.
Rand Lewis: And, and Dan, I mean, you probably need to ask the team, but, but one of the reasons that they loved working for Dan is that he was a moneymaker. They knew he was going to be successful, but at the same time, they knew, he held them accountable.
He challenged them, he pushed them intellectually. You know, there, there was, there were different e each one of them. I think probably had something a little different they liked about working for Dan, but they absolutely spoke with their feet.
Michael Mitchel: Yeah,
Rand Lewis: right. And, and is it, you know, it’s hugely successful in all those cases.
Michael Mitchel: So you’ve seen the full gamut of CEOs. Um, besides the fellowship, are there any other traits that to you stand out in successful executives?
Rand Lewis: There’s an underlying optimism and [00:10:00] sticktoitiveness. Resolve, you know, that, that I think is super important. Starting a business is, has successes, but there are, there are more, many failures along the way, you know, on your way to each success.
And so just kind of, uh, willingness to see, see something through and to not be daunted, I think is a super important trait that, that all of them share. Um, decisiveness. Uh, is the most important factor for A CEO. Yeah. And, um, those that we’ve backed, that are, that haven’t worked out often, there’s a time where you start to feel like they’re soliciting input from the board in a way that isn’t just looking for data.
It’s like they’re, they’re either scared to make the decision, they don’t know what the right answer is. They’re worried about [00:11:00] politics, like I don’t know what the factors are always, and it depends, but no CEO’s gonna be right a hundred percent of the time. Good CEOs are right 80% of the time, but they all make the decision quickly.
Michael Mitchel: Yeah,
Rand Lewis: because a lack of direction is sometimes worse. Maybe worse always than no direction. And analysis paralysis exactly. Wrong directions is, is better than no direction. Right. And, uh, and so it’s, it’s a process where you know, you’re gonna hit a dead end, you’re gonna have to reverse and you’re gonna have to move.
But you gotta really quickly figure out that you’ve hit a dead end and be decisive and cut that off and move
Michael Mitchel: and then be able to look and then be able to look back at it and say, okay, what do we learn from it?
Rand Lewis: Yeah,
Michael Mitchel: for sure. And what we’ve done differently. Yes. What, what was a good part of that? What was not a good part of that?
Yep.
Rand Lewis: But the confidence to make the call, that’s the hardest part, I think is really, really important. And we always, you know, we interact with CEOs primarily through the board. Mm-hmm. And the CEO who comes [00:12:00] to the board with a strong, well thought out reaction, listens, I’m sorry, recommendation, listens to reactions, inputs, and all of that, but then can decide and set a direction that that is super important.
Michael Mitchel: What for you, how do you measure effective leadership besides, um, the followship? Are there other aspects of the person? Um, the leadership traits or their experience? Again, this is really aimed as someone who wants to be a C um, A CXL one day, this podcast. So I’m trying to, you know, convey to them things that they should be thinking of or preparing for.
Rand Lewis: So when we interview a candidate, you know, we usually interview certainly the CEO and the CXOs. We, we often interview P VPs. We look for straight up performance, right? Mm-hmm. So if you’re the, if you’re being interviewed for a VP of sales and a business that needs to go from 10 million to 50 million in revenue, we are gonna go and, and needs to grow their sales [00:13:00] force from five people to 25 people.
When I’m interviewing that individual, I’m looking for examples of when they have done that thing before.
Michael Mitchel: Mm-hmm.
Rand Lewis: Right? So I don’t want to hear about their, their, uh, ideas of how they might do it. I want to hear about what they have done in the past that shows that they can do it and, and that that’s the best predictor of future success, I think is, is past performance.
Absolutely. Yeah. So I don’t know if that’s what you’re looking for, but No, it is.
Michael Mitchel: That’s fine. Yeah. But it’s the very specific,
Rand Lewis: if it’s a marketing person and they have to launch new products, have they launched new products before and have those products been successful? Right. And and the easiest way I always think about it is if you were in a role for, for three years, well, what were you hired to do?
What were your biggest accomplishments? What were the low points and why did you leave? Yeah, like, and if you can’t give me numbers, facts, data, that answer those questions, I become pretty skeptical, pretty quick
Michael Mitchel: as a board member. When it, when [00:14:00] you look at a, at a, a company in your portfolio when it comes to the makeup of an executive team, and what’s your philosophy?
I mean, obviously there’s gonna be times where you have to make a change. And that’s never an easy lever to pull, I would imagine. So how do you, how do you approach that?
Rand Lewis: Well, one of the old saws in our industry is that the moment you ask yourself if you have the right person, um, you know the answer. So if you allow yourself to just say, is this the right guy or gal, like you already know?
And um, so I’ve stuck to that. You know, and I’ve had many executives I’ve worked with for a very long time, and we’ve had many challenges and performance hasn’t been great, but I’ve never asked myself that question, uh, about that individual. But, you know, when I start to ask myself that question, I, I pretty much know.
And if you start asking others on the board and the board’s talking about it, you know, you, you, uh, [00:15:00] you probably know the answer. Another heuristic that we, that you sort of joke about is that for every quarter that you wait to make the decision. You’re gonna re reduce your re return return meaningfully.
Yeah. And, and so that point I made about CEOs being decisive applies at every level. It starts at the board, goes down to a first level manager, right? If you’re a first level manager and you got three people and you, you love two of ’em, and one, or you love the performance of two of them, and one, you’re asking yourself the question, you probably already know the answer.
Michael Mitchel: I am gonna step out for a second. I’m really teeing you up ’cause you have a great quote. I want it, I want you to use, nothing’s is impossible if you don’t have to do it yourself. So that’s why I was trying to, um, is there a way you want me to tee that question up so you can incorporate that because you see where I’m going with this?
Uh, well, tell me, I mean, just connect the
Rand Lewis: dots for me.
Michael Mitchel: No, no, that’s fine. I mean, I know the quote, yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, but you, you talked about talk grading. There’s so much friction associated with changing on a member [00:16:00] of your management team, so there, so there is a natural bias to wait. Okay.
Yeah, that’s where I was kind of going with that. Okay. But if that’s not the right way to, to position that question for that answer. Is there,
Rand Lewis: well, I think you could just say, what’s the role of the board in helping management teams make, make tough decisions?
Michael Mitchel: Okay.
Rand Lewis: I I, if you wanted.
Michael Mitchel: You know,
Rand Lewis: or, or, or a, or a, a superior, right?
No, no, that’s fine. I’m gonna ask that question
Michael Mitchel: right now. So, so r what’s the role of the board in making management decisions and changes?
Rand Lewis: Well, look, one of our favorite sayings is nothing’s impossible if you don’t have to do it yourself. And when you are the CEO and you’ve got someone you’ve hired as your CFO, and you’re wondering if it’s the right person.
Yeah. One of the things that often clouds your judgment is the practicality of having to tell that person they’re not the right person. Let them go and find their replacement, train their replacement, and all the friction that [00:17:00] goes with, uh, a management team change. It’s way easier for the board to say, no, no, no.
Jenny’s not the right person. You need to let her go. You’ll figure it out. Right. And, and that gets back to, Hey, why is that easy for me to say ’cause I don’t have to do it.
Michael Mitchel: Mm-hmm.
Rand Lewis: Right. Whereas the CEO, the, the personal relationship and then the, the challenges of practically making a change causes them to, to hang on to the hope.
A little too long often
Michael Mitchel: and not wanting to have that awkward conversation. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it’s uncomfortable. Yeah.
Rand Lewis: It’s all of our least favorite thing. We’ve all had to let somebody go. It’s, it’s all, it’s, it’s our least favorite thing to do.
Michael Mitchel: You probably don’t want someone who enjoys it too much.
Rand Lewis: It depends on the role.
Michael Mitchel: Yeah.
Rand Lewis: Right. So if, if the play is to do a consolidation and to drive expense reduction in the businesses that you’re going to buy, that’s true. You know, I still don’t believe anybody likes it, but you want someone who’s not uncomfortable with it for [00:18:00] sure.
Michael Mitchel: Mm-hmm.
Rand Lewis: Because they have to make those decisions quickly.
They have to implement the cost changes very rapidly and, and you know, we always would say measure twice, cut once. Right. And, and you, if you’re gonna be wrong, let too many people go and hire a few back. Not the other way around.
Michael Mitchel: Well, also it’s how you do that, how you, how you execute that evolution is being observed by everybody around you.
Yes. And so, I mean, even regardless of the circumstance, it’s gonna have ripple effects down the line. Yep. Down to the software developer. Yep. ’cause there’s a lot you about, okay. Yeah. I mean,
Rand Lewis: look, we, we go back to our CFO example. If the CFO isn’t that strong. I can almost guarantee that there’s someone in her or his organization that isn’t that strong, right?
Mm-hmm. And you have to get them out, you know, we like to say a’s higher a’s B’s, higher C’s. Yeah. And, and you know, if you have a B, you almost certainly have C’s down below. And so you’ve gotta get that B out, get an A in, and then that a will replace the will will [00:19:00] top grade the team.
Michael Mitchel: Yes, absolutely. So we’re gonna step aside from the conversation.
For a brief moment, I’d like to thank CXO conversation, sponsor A CG Denver for their support of this podcast. As a local program chair, I’m proud of Association for Corporate Growth and its role as the hub of the middle market business community for quality networking education and events. Connections are made, deals are formed, and thought leadership is exchange and we like to have fun.
In fact, today’s Thursday, um, here in Denver tomorrow we’re doing a River, river raft trip up in Idaho Springs in the, in the Rockies. So we like to have fun. I encourage you to check out acg.org/denver or your local chapter. So no back toran. Cool. Yeah, you said that with CEOs and I quote. Have become friends with whom I’ve shared life shaping experiences we’ve shared in successes and disappointments, both personally and professionally.
I find that statement by comment really meaningful. The disappointments. I mean, it seems like [00:20:00] PE firms have this reputation. But you don’t, you’re very warm and personable. I’ve heard really good things that you really are, you really do care about your, your, the companies. There’s a reason why you’re doing this.
Um, where does that come from?
Rand Lewis: I guess I don’t, I I don’t have a great answer to where it comes from other than, you know, these people we’ve built, we’re on the phone late at night, we’re on the phone early in the morning. I remember so many calls made from vacations, from parks when I’m watching my kids, and they were doing the same thing, right?
I’m at a soccer game watching my son and, and they’re at the soccer game watching their, their daughter at the same time. And so, you know, you, you get to know them. And, um, when you’re, when you’re teamed and you’re jointly pursuing a goal, uh, you, you just, you, you become friends. I guess. I don’t, I don’t. But it’s a hard [00:21:00] question for me to answer.
Yeah. Because I, I guess back to the airplane, the delayed airplane question. I, I don’t get into business that I don’t like with people that I don’t like. And then as we work together, we become good friends. And if you’re, and if you’re in business together for 10 years, things are gonna happen. Someone in their family’s gonna die, and someone in your family’s gonna die.
Like, you know, this stuff happens, right? Yeah. You, and you, it’s real. You send them flowers, you, you know, you show up. Whatever it is, you’re there for one another. Because their personal life and my personal life are very intertwined with our business pursuits.
Michael Mitchel: You’re not investing only in dollars, but also in relationships.
Yeah, absolutely. Yes. Yeah, I, I think fundamentally, people do business with people they like and trust and they want to, and that’s who you wanna do business with, for sure. Yes. Your use of disappointment, you didn’t say failure. I, I, I think that speaks to your fundamental approach to relationships in business.
Does a disappointment come to mind? You know, is there [00:22:00] an experience you can reflect upon?
Rand Lewis: Yeah, I mean, we’ve had, we had a business that, that we, we found the management team, we worked with them for three months, we invested, and one of the key, uh, roles that they needed to fill was Phil, was the chief information officer.
And we had a chief information Officer from one of our previous companies who knew this sector and it seemed like was the perfect fit. And we referred ’em. They inter, they, they met with one another. They liked one another. They hired, um, the CEO hired this person that we’d referred and two months in, he kind of called and said, ah, it’s not going so well with so and so.
What, you know, what, what, what worked for you in the past? We were probably four months in. And, and we kind of had this, he, he was scared to bring it up with me. Mm-hmm. And he said, I don’t think it’s working. I, I think we need to make a change. And of course, I backed [00:23:00] him fully. That’s his decision. He needs to be accountable for who’s on his team.
And the worst thing I could ever do is say, no, no, no. You know, you gotta, you gotta hay there. But I felt so bad that someone we had recommended and that, um. We thought would be a good fit and on paper would’ve appeared to have been a great fit, had come in, stumbled, and, and we’d had all the, the time lost and productivity challenges of, of having to, to go through that replacement, right?
Because we want these companies to be successful. We want be helpful. You feel terrible when you make a recommendation or a referral and it doesn’t work out.
Michael Mitchel: So looking back on that, what was the takeaway?
Rand Lewis: Yeah. The takeaway is that, and I give real kudos to our CEO, you don’t always make the right hiring decision.
Um, you, you have to quickly make the [00:24:00] decision to let someone go, and he did that. He was not scared to bring it up with me. He was not fearful of, of having the departure conversation. He saw it as a challenge and he was decisive and he, it’s a mistake. Right. And he relied on me. I made a mistake. He made whatever things don’t work right.
But, um, quickly identifying a mistake and moving on from it is, is absolutely crucial.
Michael Mitchel: Do you feel that he was like, okay, I need to call Rand, we need to talk this out, or was he a little ’cause Okay. Rand recommended this person. I’m really not looking forward to this phone call.
Rand Lewis: He was definitely tiptoeing around it.
Yeah, for sure.
Michael Mitchel: Yeah. But he had, but he made the call. He did. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.
Rand Lewis: Okay.
Michael Mitchel: Um, what advice? It always comes up at
Rand Lewis: the end of the conversation. Oh, does it? Yeah. Yeah. Any anything
Michael Mitchel: else? Oh, really? Oh, I just said one other thing I had to bring up. Okay. That’s interesting because you think that, you know, you when, from my approach, when you have a conversation, you have good news and [00:25:00] bad news, you always lead with the bad news.
So you end the conversation on an up note with the good news.
Rand Lewis: Well, I’m, I’m think in this particular case, I’m thinking of, it’s that first conversation where he, he hadn’t yet decided. He was, he, but he, he needed to bring this up, right? Yeah. So anyway, I, I don’t remember. We’ve all been there. I I
Michael Mitchel: totally know that moment.
I, I think we all do. Right? And you’re like, and you’re like, oh no.
Rand Lewis: This is the reason we’re having to call that other stuff. We didn’t have to have a call for.
Michael Mitchel: With me, when I’m on the phone with someone, someone you can always tell that Michael is forgetting something. ’cause he, because he starts to stall at the end.
Well, you know, uh, I am like, I’m trying to remember what I, it’s not quite that bad. Yeah. Yeah.
Rand Lewis: So, well, one of the role, you know, one of the things that happens when you’re the board member and, and you’re a lead investor with the CEO is almost every call has bad news. Yeah. You know what? What do you say?
Like, bad news? You gotta get out fast. Good news takes care of itself, right? It is not very often that they call you and just say, Hey, I just want to give you some good news. Usually that comes out in an email to a [00:26:00] very broad set of people. It’s usually the bad news that comes. So, you know, it’s. It’s uncommon to get off the phone if there isn’t some difficult conversation, right.
That we need to have.
Michael Mitchel: My, my favorite quote is, um, failures are orphans. Successes have many fathers. Yeah,
Rand Lewis: for sure. Yes, absolutely. Yeah.
Michael Mitchel: So what advice would you, uh, offer to current CEOs?
Rand Lewis: So, we’re in a market, in the technology world that has gone from rewarding growth at all costs to now rewarding profitability.
And so capital was. Wildly available when interest rates were low, and now that interest rates have gone up, it’s, it’s much harder to get. And so my first and foremost recommendation is, is you’ve gotta make sure you’re self-sustaining with capital that you have on your balance sheet. Do not assume you can raise more capital, cut your expenses quickly and aggressively to make sure if you’re not profitable, to make sure you can become profitable.
The second thing is, is that almost all of these sectors. [00:27:00] If they could have supported three to five companies, they funded 10 to 15. There are too many businesses that have been funded. And I think you’ve gotta be really, um, wide-eyed and, and, um, not optimistic about where you sit at from a market position perspective.
And if you’re not one of the couple of leaders in a sector, you’re almost certainly a follower, maybe a laggard. And you’ve gotta be very quick if you’re a leader, to go and start to consolidate and, and leave. Use the downturn to build your market position. Mm-hmm. So buy someone who gives you some new product, a new geography, a new, uh, set of capabilities around team.
Use this as an opportunity to to press your lead if you’re a leader. Harder decision is if you’re a follower or a laggard, it’s probably the right decision to go [00:28:00] be con, merge in with one of the leaders. Yeah. And to be the first one who merges into the leader, you almost always get a better deal than the last one who merges in with the leader.
And, and so I think it’s really important today to, to make sure you have enough capital to stay alive on your own. And then to quickly figure out, do you have the resources and market position to be a leader or do you need to become a part of a leader and to quickly go pursue joining with the leader if you’re not the leader?
Michael Mitchel: That’s really good. I got nothing after that. Alright. Okay. To, so let’s take a little, little down the ladder to an immersion vp. What should they be doing today in preparation for tomorrow?
Rand Lewis: So, I. They need to work for somebody who’s great and if their current boss is not great, they should go work for a current boss who is, I think you learn so [00:29:00] much by working for everyone has that watershed person in their career from whom they learned the craft, and often they follow that person.
Mm-hmm. Back to our earlier discussion, but. If you are a up and coming VP and you’re working for the CFO and that CFO isn’t great, don’t view that as an opportunity. View that as a problem. Yeah. And go work for a great CFO. Um, because if you think the CFO isn’t so good, everyone else is gonna figure it out and they won’t be successful.
And that will a, you won’t, you won’t be successful. ’cause you can’t be successful if they’re not successful and you’ll have wasted. Probably the most valuable resource you have, which is your time.
Michael Mitchel: Well, plus if, if you’re looking around and say, this CFO is a B player, holy crap, does that make me a C player?
Right? Yeah.
Right. Yep. So maybe you need to say, well, I’m not a C player. Why am I working for a B player? Yep. If you do that. That’s exactly right. Yeah. Yep. [00:30:00] So, uh, I ask everybody this question, um, what’s the worst job you’ve ever had ever? I mean, it can be high school, whatever. And what takeaway do you still use today?
Rand Lewis: Well, the worst job I had is I was a busboy at, uh, a Perkins cake and steak, um, in Boulder. I grew up in Boulder.
Michael Mitchel: Mm-hmm.
Rand Lewis: And, uh, this Perkins was right next to the university. And, um, I used to have to work the graveyard shift and, um, we just had to, we were in this restaurant from nine to three, or sometimes from 10 to six.
And this was the place that people came at the end of their night. And, um, they weren’t always at their best when they came at the end of the night, shall we say. Right? Yeah. And, um, and then many of them came and stayed ’cause they didn’t have anywhere to go.
Michael Mitchel: Mm-hmm.
Rand Lewis: And, uh, and so they would drink the bottomless coffee and they, these were in the [00:31:00] days when you could smoke cigarettes in restaurants.
And, and anyway, it was just, it was, it was a, an environment that sometimes assaulted the senses and, um. What I learned though is irrespective of who those people were, they were always looking for a smile. They were looking for someone to take an interest in them, and they, they valued being treated well.
Right. And even if that individual had sat there for a few hours and hadn’t ordered anything and they really needed to move along so that we could get some, a paying customer in so to speak, if you just explain that to ’em, they sort of understood it and they moved along.
Michael Mitchel: Yeah.
Rand Lewis: Right, and, and people always value being direct, approaching him with the truth.
And even if it’s a tough message, right, it, it, it’s, it’s received best as opposed to making up an excuse or, or hiding behind, uh, someone else.
Michael Mitchel: That’s really good. Ram. Thank you. Thank you for being on CXO conversations. I really enjoyed our [00:32:00] conversation. Thanks for being the guest. I really appreciate it.
You’re welcome. Thank you for having me. It was a great time. I’ve learned a lot. I hope everybody else has too. Um, I’d like to thank the listeners and I’m gonna encourage you to leave five stars on iTunes, that it helps other people find it. If you want to reach out to me on LinkedIn, it’s Michael Mitchell with one L.
I’m in Denver. I. Also like to thank, uh, Jalan Crossland for allowing me to use your amazing music on the show. You are the best banjo player I’ve ever heard or seen. Thanks everybody.
